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View Poll Results: Who's more close-minded: INTJs or ENTJs?

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  • ENTJs?

    17 56.67%
  • INTJs?

    13 43.33%
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  1. #21
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    Is this, though? What if it were called, Which type is more open-minded? Or, which type tends to be more receptive to differing ideas?

    Same question but more user friendly.

    I'm not really sure what the object is of the thread but I think people tend to be overly defensive here.
    It's the ranking in general. If you're going to compare people to one another, it's no surprise that either group will think itself superior, and come up with rationalizations to that end. No one likes thinking of themselves as inherently inferior.

  2. #22
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    It's the ranking in general. If you're going to compare people to one another, it's no surprise that either group will think itself superior, and come up with rationalizations to that end. No one likes thinking of themselves as inherently inferior.
    Everyone compares people. Some people are more intent on concealing it than others. Refusing to acknowledge differences (or investigate the possibility of differences, real or imagined) does nothing for actually effecting the ranking of people.

    This entire site is devoted to the categorization of people.
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    Is this, though? What if it were called, Which type is more open-minded? Or, which type tends to be more receptive to differing ideas?

    Same question but more user friendly.
    Very true.

    But it would also lead to a different kind of discussion, which not the one I'm trying to elicit...

    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    I'm not really sure what the object is of the thread but I think people tend to be overly defensive here.
    This is the object of this thread.

  4. #24
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    It's the ranking in general. If you're going to compare people to one another, it's no surprise that either group will think itself superior, and come up with rationalizations to that end. No one likes thinking of themselves as inherently inferior.
    Um, I think self-aware and confident folks are more than comfortable with understanding and accepting and even delighting in the fact that they are inferior in ways that others are not.

    I have NO issue reveling in other people's gifts.

    What a bleak world we would live in if their wasn't superior works of genius for us to study/observe/look at/absorb.

    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by SillySapienne View Post
    To know that something has a tendency/pattern/common characteristic does not negate the fact that individual people are just that, individuals, and individual situations and circumstances always trump generalizations about the group.

    Also, what we need to do is make astute generalizations, understand why they exist, what they imply.

    To say ALL women are sexually submissive is different than saying more women than men tend to be sexually submissive.

    Make sense?

    +1000

  6. #26
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    Is this, though? What if it were called, Which type is more open-minded? Or, which type tends to be more receptive to differing ideas?

    Same question but more user friendly.

    I'm not really sure what the object is of the thread but I think people tend to be overly defensive here.
    Great post!!!

    I agree wholeheartedly.



    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    Everyone compares people. Some people are more intent on concealing it than others. Refusing to acknowledge differences (or investigate the possibility of differences, real or imagined) does nothing for actually effecting the ranking of people.

    This entire site is devoted to the categorization of people.
    True^ infinity.

    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by SillySapienne View Post
    Um, I think self-aware and confident folks are more than comfortable with understanding and accepting and even delighting in the fact that they are inferior in ways that others are not.

    I have NO issue reveling in other people's gifts.

    What a bleak world we would live in if their wasn't superior works of genius for us to study/observe/look at/absorb.

    Word.


  8. #28
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SillySapienne View Post
    I saw that image, and without explicitly knowing it, I knew it had something to do with the Holocaust.

    Um, I don't think the Jews were persecuted for their "negative" aspects.

    They were scapegoated, I do not promote, in anyway, promulgated untrue generalizations, but you're a man of science, we can in fact make assertions regarding groups, hence there even existing groups/categories/systems.
    Scapegoating involves coming up with a group of negative characteristics, either true or false, to justify the harsh action taken against the targeted group. In the case of Nazi Germany, Jewish people were characterized as shifty, disloyal, arrogant, covetous, and avaricious, amongst other unpleasant terms, and that these traits needed to be expunged from the Volk.

    Were there Jewish people who exhibited those characteristics? Of course, there are people like that of every background. However, there were just as many who never displayed those traits, and instead were giving, selfless individuals who worked tirelessly to make the world around them a better place. However, when a worldwide depression's going on, and someone's looking for another person to blame, they're not necessarily going to stop for the sake of those people. That's why scapegoating is the way it is.

    What makes a group?

    What makes a category?

    What makes a system?

    We operate in a world filled with generalizations, and generalizing is not a BAD thing, seriously, it's not.

    I'm dumbfounded, how is making generalizations, in and of itself a bad thing?

    :confused:
    Of course not, it's the only way we have time to make many snap judgments that are necessary to survival. But it is inherently dangerous, and when it goes wrong, the effects have been catastrophic.

    To know that something has a tendency/pattern/common characteristic does not negate the fact that individual people are just that, individuals, and individual situations and circumstances always trump generalizations about the group.
    However, we simply don't have enough time to get to know everyone well enough to constantly put aside these biases. Is the person who says "I'm not racist, one of my best friends is black... but he's one of the good ones" truly not racist?

    Also, what we need to do is make astute generalizations, understand why they exist, what they imply.

    To say ALL women are sexually submissive is different than saying more women than men tend to be sexually submissive.

    Make sense?

    I understand what you're saying, and yes, I grow frustrated with the social issues that go along with categorization. However, they're there for a reason, which is that when times are bad, simple generalization turns into scapegoating. When talking about people, we may be able to discuss it dispassionately, but that doesn't mean that the emotional response to the subject is dispassionate at all. Humans aren't rational beings, but emotional ones... and that's where the danger in categorization comes from.

  9. #29
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    Everyone compares people. Some people are more intent on concealing it than others. Refusing to acknowledge differences (or investigate the possibility of differences, real or imagined) does nothing for actually effecting the ranking of people.

    This entire site is devoted to the categorization of people.
    Now you know why some people have a big problem with always referring to things in terms of type.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Now you know why some people have a big problem with always referring to things in terms of type.
    I'm sure he understood this beforehand.

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