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Thread: Dreams of Power

  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    That's... strange. Is it only Catholics, or just any non-Anglican?
    Just RCs, its a legacy of a lot of history.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Just RCs, its a legacy of a lot of history.
    If a RC were to win the election? What then?

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    No one needs to "rise to power," to make a positive contribution to the world.
    That.

    I also find that the people who want to lead and be in charge are usually the last people who should be allowed to be in power.

    It's the humble people who have already proven themselves to be efficacious in their daily lives, who make a difference regardless of where they are, and who don't consider themselves worthy to make decisions for lots of other people can SOMETIMES be the best people to hold power.

    There's too much damage done by ambitious people who truly do not have a freaking clue about life, and they're especially dangerous because they WANT to meddle and impose decisions on others and remake the world in their unrestrained image.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    I like to think that I transform my corner of the world simply by example, by living the way I do. I seem to give other people ideas about how to live more sensibly, manageably, and in keeping with one's own principles and wishes.

    yes. Changing the world through self-investment and "relational living" rather than imposing power on others from above.

    Makes a lot of sense to me.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    If a RC were to win the election? What then?
    Good question I reckon. Its never happened, they debated it when Blair was in office but he was never a declared RC until after he left office and converted to the RC church. By this point its almost one of those things but it would be interested to see if someone ever where in the position of being elected if they would waver it or not.

    Could just be one of those things like shooting welshmen with bows and arrows or not entering the states if you have anarchist views, they're laws but, you know.

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    That.

    I also find that the people who want to lead and be in charge are usually the last people who should be allowed to be in power.

    It's the humble people who have already proven themselves to be efficacious in their daily lives, who make a difference regardless of where they are, and who don't consider themselves worthy to make decisions for lots of other people can SOMETIMES be the best people to hold power.

    There's too much damage done by ambitious people who truly do not have a freaking clue about life, and they're especially dangerous because they WANT to meddle and impose decisions on others and remake the world in their unrestrained image.
    Yeah, I wouldnt generalise like that.

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    It'll be more interesting to see what happens in a few decades when Muslims greatly outnumber the Christian churchgoers in England and become in effect the majority.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Yeah, I wouldnt generalise like that.
    Yeah, I guess you generalize in lots of other ways?
    (And quite the master of the "Oh, I just disagree, so there" rebuttal.)

    This was inherent in what I said, but let me state it even more clearly for you, since you don't seem to care to pick things apart:

    - People who want power are far more apt to abuse it. Contrastingly, they might still have personality traits that allow them to be effective in power use.

    - People who don't want power will typically think more about using it. Contrastingly, some of them won't use power effectively if they are in charge.

    So there's some Catch-22 involved.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Yeah, I guess you generalize in lots of other ways?
    (And quite the master of the "Oh, I just disagree, so there" rebuttal.)

    This was inherent in what I said, but let me state it even more clearly for you, since you don't seem to care to pick things apart:

    - People who want power are far more apt to abuse it. Contrastingly, they might still have personality traits that allow them to be effective in power use.

    - People who don't want power will typically think more about using it. Contrastingly, some of them won't use power effectively if they are in charge.

    So there's some Catch-22 involved.
    Yeah, both of those perspectives I reckon are cliched in the extreme, politics is one of the only career paths which people who wish to do it are thought as suitable for exclusion.

    I mean do you take everyone who would like to help others and exclude them from nursing, medicine, social work or any jobs in hospitality or customer service what so ever? No, it appears ridiculous when you put it that way, and yet each of those examples can imply power relationships too.

    I'll be clear that I want a very democratic order, one in which personal responsibility is a norm and practically everyone participates, as opposed to the managerialism which I think typifies politics at the moment but until then I'd like to be leader.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    That.

    I also find that the people who want to lead and be in charge are usually the last people who should be allowed to be in power.
    This.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post

    I'll be clear that I want a very democratic order, one in which personal responsibility is a norm and practically everyone participates, as opposed to the managerialism which I think typifies politics at the moment but until then I'd like to be leader.
    It's at the very least naive to presume that anybody's particular utopian vision is implementable or sustainable or even actually an improvement and particularly so when that vision would place demands on the actions or values of large groups of people.

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