User Tag List

View Poll Results: Who's more close-minded?

Voters
87. You may not vote on this poll
  • NTJs?

    73 83.91%
  • NTPs?

    14 16.09%
First 678910 Last

Results 71 to 80 of 165

  1. #71
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    8w7 sx/so
    Socionics
    EIE
    Posts
    3,919

    Default

    "An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded"

    - Warhammer

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

  2. #72
    Senior Member paisley1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    8w9
    Socionics
    EIE None
    Posts
    369

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    But on what basis do you judge whether or not it's the right leap?

    Your own external judging function: Fe?
    I have a powerful tertiary Ti.
    "Truth stands true, independent of whether you agree with it or not."

    "Don't let what matters least, matter most."

    Extroverted (E) 50% Introverted (I) 50%
    Intuitive (N) 62.5% Sensing (S) 37.5%
    Feeling (F) 51.61% Thinking (T) 48.39%
    Judging (J) 51.52% Perceiving (P) 48.48%
    8w9 EIE

  3. #73
    Tempbanned
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    6w5 sx/so
    Posts
    8,161

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by paisley1 View Post
    You must know nothing of INFJ's, we're paradoxes and contradictions! By the statistics alone, I shouldn't even exist.
    I'm not sure if you quite got my point...

    I was implying that you were engaging in your own type-bias...

    I.e., you were pointing out the "blind spots" of others by pointing to the functions that you possess and they "lack".

    Quote Originally Posted by paisley1 View Post
    I have a powerful tertiary Ti.
    And, as such, how do you know that this is not simply misleading you with regards to the INTJ's leaps?

    Maybe the criteria for judgment you are using is simply different, and possibly incorrect for his Ni leaps?

    Once again, caveat:

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra
    Which is not to say that INTJs, or any Ni-dom for that matter, can't have the tendency to make the "wrong leap"...

    I think maturing into a healthy Ni-dom is largely a matter of learning to discern which "leaps" should be listened to, and which should be shelved.

  4. #74
    Senior Member paisley1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    8w9
    Socionics
    EIE None
    Posts
    369

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    I'm not sure if you quite got my point...

    I was implying that you were engaged in your own type-bias...

    I.e., you were pointing out the "blind spots" of others by pointing to the functions that you possess.



    And, as such, how do you know that this is not simply misleading you with regards to the INTJ's leaps?

    Maybe the criteria for judgment you are using is simply different, and possibly incorrect for his Ni leaps?
    I recognize that you were pointing out my own blind spots, and I deflected said suggestion by pointing out my own ineffability dismisses said claim. (I was being funny)

    With regards to my INTJ buddy, in these specific instances, he was corrected a second later, and felt like a total idiot. As with my older sister, who's an INTJ, she doesn't make 'leaps' so much as 'hints' towards the right answer. Again, humility towards the subject matter is key, which is independent of type.
    "Truth stands true, independent of whether you agree with it or not."

    "Don't let what matters least, matter most."

    Extroverted (E) 50% Introverted (I) 50%
    Intuitive (N) 62.5% Sensing (S) 37.5%
    Feeling (F) 51.61% Thinking (T) 48.39%
    Judging (J) 51.52% Perceiving (P) 48.48%
    8w9 EIE

  5. #75
    Tempbanned
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    6w5 sx/so
    Posts
    8,161

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by paisley1 View Post
    I recognize that you were pointing out my own blind spots, and I deflected said suggestion by pointing out my own ineffability dismisses said claim.


    Spoken like a true Ni dom.

    Quote Originally Posted by paisley1 View Post
    With regards to my INTJ buddy, in these specific instances, he was corrected a second later, and felt like a total idiot. As with my older sister, who's an INTJ, she doesn't make 'leaps' so much as 'hints' towards the right answer. Again, humility towards the subject matter is key, which is independent of type.
    Agreed.

    I think the humility is the ability to consider that one's "leaps" may not be true.

    Which, in my opinion, is very close to the definition of critical thinking, the hallmark of open-mindedness.

  6. #76
    Senior Member fecaleagle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    MBTI
    INTj
    Posts
    120

    Default

    Based on the type descriptions you would think INTJs should be more close-minded than INTPs, but nearly all of the INTPs that I know are more close-minded than the INTJs I know. I guess it comes down to how developed their functions are, among other things. An immature INTJ who uses Ni almost exclusively while ignoring Te can be pretty close-minded (I've only met a few...I think I used to do that when I was a kid though). Of course we're all prone to do that every now and then, but for some it's extreme. For the INTP, I think the source of the close-mindedness is the lower level of confidence in their thoughts and beliefs (maybe because their dominant Ti is a perceiving function coupled with their Ne always pondering the what ifs). Thus some put up a wall of overconfidence and close-mindedness in order to protect themselves from that insecurity. So the level of close-minded just depends on a bunch of factors like these....so when an INTJ seems close-minded it is because of overconfidence and when an INTP does it is because of underconfidence. All in all I would say it totally depends on the person. It's funny how INTx are seen by others by being the most close-minded, where in fact I think we are among the most open-minded of all types (assuming a fully healthy model of each type).
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  7. #77
    Senior Member paisley1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    8w9
    Socionics
    EIE None
    Posts
    369

    Default

    Like that segment on The Daily Show with Jon Stewart back in the day between Stephen Colbert and Steve Carell called "Even Stevens" where they had to fight opposing viewpoints no matter what, and always had to disagree with each other.

    YouTube - Even Stevphen Islam vs Christianity

    Hysterical. Again, it's how you interact, how you agree and disagree with someone and admit what you don't know. That's all.
    "Truth stands true, independent of whether you agree with it or not."

    "Don't let what matters least, matter most."

    Extroverted (E) 50% Introverted (I) 50%
    Intuitive (N) 62.5% Sensing (S) 37.5%
    Feeling (F) 51.61% Thinking (T) 48.39%
    Judging (J) 51.52% Perceiving (P) 48.48%
    8w9 EIE

  8. #78
    Senior Member fecaleagle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    MBTI
    INTj
    Posts
    120

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by paisley1 View Post
    Again, it's how you interact, how you agree and disagree with someone and admit what you don't know. That's all.
    Hmm I don't know about using interaction to judge something like this. Many times, if someone convinces me that I am wrong (yes it does happen every now and then ), I fully accept it in my mind and modify my understanding accordingly, but I don't even let them know that I am doing this. I can forget to give them that reassurance that they are looking for (damn Fe!), so in a case like that my open-mindedness wouldn't be apparent. It seems to me that you're describing open-mindedness as in how you are perceived by others rather than how you truly are.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  9. #79
    Senior Member paisley1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    8w9
    Socionics
    EIE None
    Posts
    369

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fecaleagle View Post
    Hmm I don't know about using interaction to judge something like this. Many times, if someone convinces me that I am wrong (yes it does happen every now and then ), I fully accept it in my mind and modify my understanding accordingly, but I don't even let them know that I am doing this. I can forget to give them that reassurance that they are looking for (damn Fe!), so in a case like that my open-mindedness wouldn't be apparent. It seems to me that you're describing open-mindedness as in how you are perceived by others rather than how you truly are.
    Well, how you're perceived is crucial in being considered closeminded, as no one thinks they are closeminded until someone else tells them. Closemindedness is a perception from others not of yourself, and not about facts, because you can have all the right facts and see both sides of the argument and have taken a sound logical or emotional position, but like I said with my comment on Even Stepvhens, it's all about how that knowledge comes across to others, as either rigid or understanding, as to merit the label of being closeminded.

    Make sense? Like, when someone tells you that it's closeminded to think that 2+2=3, you don't immediately change your perspective, you are either rigid and say NO or understanding and say, "well, what leads you to that conclusion?". Get it?
    "Truth stands true, independent of whether you agree with it or not."

    "Don't let what matters least, matter most."

    Extroverted (E) 50% Introverted (I) 50%
    Intuitive (N) 62.5% Sensing (S) 37.5%
    Feeling (F) 51.61% Thinking (T) 48.39%
    Judging (J) 51.52% Perceiving (P) 48.48%
    8w9 EIE

  10. #80
    Senior Member fecaleagle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    MBTI
    INTj
    Posts
    120

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by paisley1 View Post
    Well, how you're perceived is crucial in being considered closeminded, as no one thinks they are closeminded until someone else tells them. Closemindedness is a perception from others not of yourself, and not about facts, because you can have all the right facts and see both sides of the argument and have taken a sound logical or emotional position, but like I said with my comment on Even Stepvhens, it's all about how that knowledge comes across to others, as either rigid or understanding, as to merit the label of being closeminded.

    Make sense? Like, when someone tells you that it's closeminded to think that 2+2=3, you don't immediately change your perspective, you are either rigid and say NO or understanding and say, "well, what leads you to that conclusion?". Get it?
    I see what you're saying, and while it can be beneficial to make one's open-mindedness apparent to others, I don't agree with your statement that how you are perceived is crucial in being either open or close minded. I think a person can come to that conclusion about themselves if they are objective enough without anyone telling them either way. In fact, I think there can be a huge disparity between being open-minded and being perceived as open-minded. Some people can fake receptiveness to others' ideas and beliefs while rigidly clinging onto their own beliefs on the inside. These people would be seen as open-minded, yet they are truly close-minded. While another person can be really open to suggestions yet have too much pride to admit it others.

    The definition of close-mindedness is being "Intolerant of the beliefs and opinions of others; stubbornly unreceptive to new ideas"..."not ready to receive to new ideas"...a person can be very tolerant and receptive of others' opinions, and by definition not be close-minded. Conveying that tolerance doesn't make that person any more open-minded.

    At least that's how I see it. But I am glad to see what a person like you (with a presumably strong Fe) sees something like this.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

Similar Threads

  1. Who Is More the Buffoon: Obama or Bush II?
    By Mal12345 in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 11-01-2014, 12:42 PM
  2. [NT] Who's more close-minded: INTJs or ENTJs?
    By Zarathustra in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 88
    Last Post: 08-08-2010, 01:07 PM
  3. Who's more close-minded: me or you?
    By VagrantFarce in forum The Fluff Zone
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 08-01-2010, 08:55 PM
  4. [NT] Who's more close-minded: INTPs or ENTPs?
    By Zarathustra in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 08-01-2010, 01:58 PM
  5. Who're more manipulative? Gay Squirrels or Jewish Monkeys
    By Nonsensical in forum The Fluff Zone
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 10-26-2009, 02:35 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO