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View Poll Results: Who's more close-minded?

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  • NTJs?

    73 83.91%
  • NTPs?

    14 16.09%
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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by paisley1 View Post
    INTP's with their Ti only know what they know, and don't make "I don't know" statements very often, which I'd suggest is Ni envy. Most ENTJ's are business exec's and they only care about people listening to them and their business plan, and can have difficulty thinking of anything else...more tunnel vision than "closemindedness", whereas I'd never peg an ENTP for being closeminded, they never finish anything....nothing is ever closed....
    I agree with you to a great extent, although ENTPs can get very stuck in their Ti model being correct (just like an INTP), and INTJs can get very "no, this is what actually works" similarly to an ENTJ.

    I do agree, however, that it tends to be each types' iNtuition that enables them to be more flexible with their "models", and to consider other views/positions/opinions that are not necessarily their own.

  2. #62
    Senior Member paisley1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    I agree with you to a great extent, although ENTPs can get very stuck in their Ti model being correct (just like an INTP), and INTJs can get very "no, this is what actually works" similarly to an ENTJ.

    I do agree, however, that it tends to be each types' iNtuition that enables them to be more flexible with their "models", and to consider other views/positions/opinions that are not necessarily their own.
    Which boils down to humility towards the subject matter and how they present the information as to what is and what is not, which is a feeling function, which they don't have, which makes them all a bunch of closeminded self righteous bastards! heavy on the sarcasm today....kidding, but I really do think it's a completely subjective question pitting those functions against each other without any criteria as to what one is closeminded about.
    "Truth stands true, independent of whether you agree with it or not."

    "Don't let what matters least, matter most."

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  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by paisley1 View Post
    Which boils down to humility towards the subject matter and how they present the information as to what is and what is not, which is a feeling function, which they don't have, which makes them all a bunch of closeminded self righteous bastards! heavy on the sarcasm today....kidding, but I really do think it's a completely subjective question pitting those functions against each other without any criteria as to what one is closeminded about.
    You got the point!


  4. #64
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    So, the point:

    In my opinion, Ti-users tend to manifest their close-mindedness about whether or not something is logically coherent and consistent: their primary criteria for appreciating something is whether, within a system, it is logically consistent and valid, and can be proved as such.

    Te-users, on the other hand, in my opinion, seem to me to care more about whether something is sound: does it actually apply? Not whether it can necessarily be logically proven (although, they are more than happy if it can be and is), but whether it actually represents/connects with reality, and thus works.

    In my opinion, soundness is vastly more important than logical proof.

    I welcome logical proof, but I need not possess it in order to induce whether something is actually sound.

    Why do I need to obsess over whether something is proven, when my intuition is right the vast majority of the time?

    (Obviously, my Te bias is pouring through here, but I do think this is the case, and I'd gladly welcome a refutation of my argument.)

  5. #65
    Senior Member paisley1's Avatar
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    What's kinda scary about INTJ's (Study Ni and comparative analysis Te) is when they make Ni leaps that are completely wrong because of a lack of Ti, and even worse for INTP's (detail Ti and application Ne) trying to make an Ni leap with just Ti facts, that becomes extremely embarassing for both when trying to save face. They all have areas of closemindedness, or like on IT Crowd last night, "We all have a blind spot", but I agree with you Zarathustra, that my Ni doesn't need the minutia of a proof either, to tell me that what I'm thinking is sound.
    "Truth stands true, independent of whether you agree with it or not."

    "Don't let what matters least, matter most."

    Extroverted (E) 50% Introverted (I) 50%
    Intuitive (N) 62.5% Sensing (S) 37.5%
    Feeling (F) 51.61% Thinking (T) 48.39%
    Judging (J) 51.52% Perceiving (P) 48.48%
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  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by paisley1 View Post
    What's kinda scary about INTJ's (Study Ni and comparative analysis Te) is when they make Ni leaps that are completely wrong because of a lack of Ti.
    I have no idea what you're talking about.


  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by paisley1 View Post
    What's kinda scary about INTJ's (Study Ni and comparative analysis Te) is when they make Ni leaps that are completely wrong because of a lack of Ti, and even worse for INTP's (detail Ti and application Ne) trying to make an Ni leap with just Ti facts, that becomes extremely embarassing for both when trying to save face. They all have areas of closemindedness, or like on IT Crowd last night, "We all have a blind spot", but I agree with you Zarathustra, that my Ni doesn't need the minutia of a proof either, to tell me that what I'm thinking is sound.
    I have to say, though, an INFJ making complaints about INTJ's lacking Ti and INTP's lacking Ni is rather circumspect...


  8. #68
    Senior Member paisley1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    I have no idea what you're talking about.

    I have an INTJ buddy that's constantly not making the right leap, and it's hilarious. "From the overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks" is the issue.
    "Truth stands true, independent of whether you agree with it or not."

    "Don't let what matters least, matter most."

    Extroverted (E) 50% Introverted (I) 50%
    Intuitive (N) 62.5% Sensing (S) 37.5%
    Feeling (F) 51.61% Thinking (T) 48.39%
    Judging (J) 51.52% Perceiving (P) 48.48%
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  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by paisley1 View Post
    I have an INTJ buddy that's constantly not making the right leap, and it's hilarious. "From the overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks" is the issue.
    But on what basis do you judge whether or not it's the right leap?

    Your own external judging function: Fe?

    Which is not to say that INTJs, or any Ni-dom, for that matter, can't have the tendency to make the "wrong leap"...

    I think maturing into a healthy Ni-dom is largely a matter of learning to discern which "leaps" should be listened to, and which should be shelved.

  10. #70
    Senior Member paisley1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    I have to say, though, an INFJ making complaints about INTJ's lacking Ti and INTP's lacking Ni is rather circumspect...

    You must know nothing of INFJ's, we're paradoxes and contradictions! By the statistics alone, I shouldn't even exist.
    "Truth stands true, independent of whether you agree with it or not."

    "Don't let what matters least, matter most."

    Extroverted (E) 50% Introverted (I) 50%
    Intuitive (N) 62.5% Sensing (S) 37.5%
    Feeling (F) 51.61% Thinking (T) 48.39%
    Judging (J) 51.52% Perceiving (P) 48.48%
    8w9 EIE

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