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View Poll Results: Who's more close-minded?

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  • NTJs?

    73 83.91%
  • NTPs?

    14 16.09%
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  1. #151
    failed poetry slam career chubber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by five sounds View Post
    YES. INTJs are like 1000 times less open minded than ENTPs.
    So on a sliding scale, would you think it would look like this?

    ENTJ, INTP, INTJ, ENTP

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  2. #152
    Entertaining Cracker five sounds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chubber View Post
    So on a sliding scale, would you think it would look like this?

    ENTJ, INTP, INTJ, ENTP

    Yep! I'd say so.
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  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by five sounds View Post
    yeah, i'm not sure if it's just function matching, but i've found INTJs more open minded than INTPs. it's like INTPs can't see outside of Ti, while the Ni of the INTJ allows them to troubleshoot different possibilities before scoffing at them. of course, it takes a willingness to be open to a possibility, which i've seen plenty of INTJs simply not entertain because whatever's been put forward just seems wrong to them.
    I'm not as open-minded as xNFPs (they can get pretty far out there) and ENTPs in general and I can see how thinking dominants could be seen as being less open, but I'm usually light years ahead of xNTJs. When I'm closed off it's because I'm tired, am in the middle of something else, am trying to figure things out for myself and am being interrupted, or I'm not open to the crap some idiot is trying to force down my throat (I think the person is stupid and that they don't know what they are talking about). I'm not open-minded to stupidity. There are also cases where I'm not close-minded, but someone repeatedly says I am, so therefore in the minds of everyone else, that's exactly who I am.

    Maybe INTJs are quietly more open-minded, but the display they put on usually makes me think they are backward, stupid, instantly get stuck on something being "right," don't really think much before they reach their conclusions (it's as though they pick something, mumble some BS for a while to make it seem as though they are deliberating, then go with the arbitrary decision they made as they try to find some facts to back it up), and are always trying to force it on others as though it's clearly the way things should be. Yes, INTJs are capable of changing their minds, but it's as though someone has to spell everything out for them, assault them in an argument, let them move on without having to admit they were wrong, then let them be able to take this new learning and shove it down everyone's throat. And even past the fact that they didn't admit to being wrong and are still forcing some opinion on others, they don't seem to properly understand what was communicated, or they twist it around until they are saying something else, or something inline with what they were saying before (while continuing to try to say they were right). The extremity of this isn't as severe as with guardians (xSTJs, especially), but it's always there and it gets on my nerves. It makes it impossible for me to be around types like these. They are always on in this regard.

    Maybe INTJs are more open-minded to emotion-related things than INTPs, but I'm not sure. That is, INTJs seem to draw a complete blank when it comes to emotion-driven things (versus the INTP who just mostly draws a blank), and I've seen them open themselves up to and accept some of the dumbest explanations and rationalizations in this arena, something I would never do. Usually people reacting emotionally isn't them reacting emotionally, usually it's them being stupid or full of it, and they need to let it go. When it comes to the emotions of others, I often end up thinking INTJs are nuts and stupid for some of the things they agree to. Maybe that's not them being open-minded, maybe they are showing their irrationality and how they'll jump around doing random things in order to feign competence, not have to admit they're wrong, and not have to acknowledge their ignorance or stupidity in a certain area.

    Sometimes I wonder if I'm actually open-minded or if it's that I don't care what people want to believe (or if it lines up with what I believe). It wouldn't be readily obvious that I'm closed off on an issue and am not open to changing my opinion, because I'd still have no problems listening to other points of view, can see how someone could arrive at those beliefs, and can even argue as though I agree with what they are saying.

    I don't always see it as necessary to change my point of view, even if it seems I'm wrong. This isn't usually as obvious as with judger types, because I'm not forceful with what I think, I'm not trying to impose my beliefs on anyone, and I don't go around broadcasting what I think as though it's the official and final word from on high that everyone should clearly listen to, because I've made a decision.

  4. #154
    Entertaining Cracker five sounds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by baccheion View Post
    I'm not as open-minded as xNFPs (they can get pretty far out there) and ENTPs in general, but it seems I'm light years ahead of the xNTJs. When I'm closed off it's because I'm tired, am in the middle of something else, am trying to figure things out for myself and am being interrupted, or I'm not open to the crap some idiot is trying to force down my throat (I think the person is stupid and that they don't know what they are talking about). I'm not open-minded to stupidity.

    Maybe INTJs are quietly more open-minded, but the display they put on usually makes me think they are backward, stupid, instantly get stuck on something being "right," don't really think much before they reach their conclusions (it's as though they pick something, mumble some BS for a while to make it seem as though they are deliberating, then go with that arbitrary decision they made while trying to find some facts to back it up), and are always trying to force it on others as though it's clearly the way things should be. Yes, INTJs are capable of changing their minds, but it's as though someone has to spell everything out for them, assault them in an argument, let them move on without having to admit they're wrong, then let them be able to take this new learning and shove it down everyone's throat. And even past the fact that they didn't admit to being wrong and are still forcing some opinion on others, they don't seem to properly understand what was communicated, or they twist it around until they are saying something else, or something inline with what they were saying before (while continuing to try to say they were right). The extremity of this isn't as severe as with guardians (xSTJs, especially), but it's always there and it gets on my nerves. It makes it impossible for me to be around types like these. They are always on in this regard.

    Maybe INTJs are more open-minded to emotion-related things than INTPs, but I'm not sure. That is, INTJs seem to draw a complete blank when it comes to emotion-driven things (versus the INTP who mostly draws a blank), and I've seen them open themselves up to and accept some of the dumbest explanations and rationalizations in this arena, something I would never do. When it comes to the emotions of others, I often end up thinking INTJs are nuts and stupid for some of the things they agree to. Maybe that's not open-mindedness, maybes that's irrationality and someone jumping around doing random things in order to feign competence and not have to acknowledge their ignorance or stupidity in a certain area.
    Yeah, I think the emotional thing is the difference between tert Fi and Fe. So while intjs might be more open to others' ideas (although they rarely let it show since it does take them a while to process and integrate new information), they are pretty bad at dealing with and understanding the emotions of others. So while an intp might cut your idea down and call it stupid, he'll still be more likely to be aware of others emotions and present things in a smoother way when they want to.
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    Such knowledge is too wonderful for me,
    too lofty for me to attain.

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by five sounds View Post
    Yeah, I think the emotional thing is the difference between tert Fi and Fe. So while intjs might be more open to others' ideas (although they rarely let it show since it does take them a while to process and integrate new information), they are pretty bad at dealing with and understanding the emotions of others. So while an intp might cut your idea down and call it stupid, he'll still be more likely to be aware of others emotions and present things in a smoother way when they want to.
    INTPs are quicker to see things IMO because they are open, with an INTJ you have to beat it into there head before the light bulb clicks. INTPs may be quicker to call something stupid, but they have usually processed it and deemed it so because they have listened. Again, lack of agreeance or positive judgement isnt open minded, its the fact that an INTP is alot more willing to take in, process and consider something as a possibility before an INTJ will. This is from working with quite a few INTJs and quite a few INTPs.

    The only thing I would say INTJs are more open to is there own mind. And I really have no issues opening up an INTJ and its usally done through them respecting my opinion and judgement over time

    with an INTJ its like they have this vision which is there thought and what doesnt fit gets thrown out immediately. Which means what they dont understand doesnt fit and gets discarded.
    Im out, its been fun

  6. #156
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by five sounds View Post
    Yeah, I think the emotional thing is the difference between tert Fi and Fe. So while intjs might be more open to others' ideas (although they rarely let it show since it does take them a while to process and integrate new information), they are pretty bad at dealing with and understanding the emotions of others. So while an intp might cut your idea down and call it stupid, he'll still be more likely to be aware of others emotions and present things in a smoother way when they want to.
    This is generally true. The resistance on the part of INTJs that people seem to be describing comes from the fact that getting us to change our minds requires sound evidence and/or reasoning, something that seems beyond the capability or at least the intentions of many folks. I at least will not abandon my position just because you ask me to, or tell me I should, or tell me it's wrong. You need to show me what is wrong with it. Then I will either agree outright, or tell you I need to think about it some more, which I will then do.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...
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  7. #157
    literally your mother PocketFullOf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chubber View Post
    I have to wonder that INTJs would be a bit more closed minded over ENTPs, because Ni is more structured than Ne. (iirc)
    I'd say so in general.


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  8. #158
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chubber View Post
    I have to wonder that INTJs would be a bit more closed minded over ENTPs, because Ni is more structured than Ne. (iirc)
    What makes you say that? I have never had that sense. To me, it is Te that gives Ni perceptions their apparent structure.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  9. #159
    failed poetry slam career chubber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    What makes you say that? I have never had that sense. To me, it is Te that gives Ni perceptions their apparent structure.
    maybe we are saying the same thing. What you are saying makes sense... however...

    Introverted Intuition will take pieces of abstract information and make sense of it. It is not interested so much in concrete facts, as it is with the essence of ideas and theories, and how they all fit together. They are very good at recognizing patterns.

    Introverted Intuition may sense that something is off. They may notice a person’s tone of voice, a momentary pause, or body language that is incongruent to how they typically behave. These factors are observed in a more abstract way, making it difficult for the Ni user to explain their conclusion to others. They just get an overall feel or aura of the situation.

    Introverted Intuition can actually be compared very similarly with Introverted Sensing. Both take into account past events and how they unfolded. While Introverted Sensing will remember the facts and details of a past experience, Introverted Intuition will recall the essence of what happened and how events eventually played out. Ni users can take past experiences to assess a current situation, and then use this memory bank of experiences of what they sense will happen to envision whether a plan will be successful.

    [..]

    Introverted Intuition asks questions like “what’s really going on here?” or “where have I felt this way before?” Introverted Intuition is one of the toughest functions to explain to someone else that doesn’t have it. Because of this, Ni has been labeled as “mystical” and “psychic.” And sure, it can appear that way to others, but it is more complex and involved than just “magically” coming to conclusions.

    Introverted Intuition (Ni)
    And it has been mentioned before that Ni is like Si, also logical and structured based, like building a road map into the future.

  10. #160
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    Answer: both of the above.

    The more open minded people aren't going to be NTs or any kind of thinkers, they are going to be people who don't care as much about why something might be wrong to begin with. I am passing that torch onward to the NFs

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