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View Poll Results: Who's more close-minded?

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  • NTJs?

    73 83.91%
  • NTPs?

    14 16.09%
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  1. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by phobik View Post
    Why is this thrad still open?
    Why are you posting in it?

  2. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildcat
    The most closed-minded people are the INTPs. I am ashamed to admit it. Read INTPc.
    FTR

  3. #113
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    INTJs. They judge you wrongly. And needlessly. And to top it all off THEY THINK THEY ARE RIGHT!

  4. #114
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    FTR
    I'd say he's right about INTPc; highly exclusive "pat yourselves on the back" community that's essentially bent on self reinforcement and validation that treats a dissenting personality like a plague. The problem is, I'd say a fairly good chunk of the members over there probably aren't INTPs, but it's really become a place that "idolizes" the INTP temperament and all the membership emulates it as best they can. Every single type community on the internet takes on this quality, which I think is funny/sad/interesting/whatever you want to call it.

    In general terms though, I think Lethe's initial posts on the matter are accurate: NTP and NTJ close-mindedness is going to manifest differently from a cognitive standpoint, however one is not more predisposed to their own close-mindedness than the other. NTJs tend to have unshakeable internal perceptions of truth and meaning and will sometimes dismiss information that doesn't corroborate, while the NTPs flex and adapt to new information rather quickly and readily but the moment you challenge one of the Pillars in which their model is based they may cling and dismiss because they trust it as much as NTJs "trust" Ni.

    In the end, I don't think it will be the fault of functions, but more the fault of the individual. The "perception" may be that NTJs are more closeminded simply because the limiting of options and perspectives tends to be manifested externally with Te, and is thus far more visible and nobody else really sees the Ni juggling going on underneath, whereas this is the opposite for NTPs.



  5. #115
    Senior Member guesswho's Avatar
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    Why would NTPs be close minded?

  6. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    I'd say he's right about INTPc; highly exclusive "pat yourselves on the back" community that's essentially bent on self reinforcement and validation that treats a dissenting personality like a plague. The problem is, I'd say a fairly good chunk of the members over there probably aren't INTPs, but it's really become a place that "idolizes" the INTP temperament and all the membership emulates it as best they can. Every single type community on the internet takes on this quality, which I think is funny/sad/interesting/whatever you want to call it.

    In general terms though, I think Lethe's initial posts on the matter are accurate: NTP and NTJ close-mindedness is going to manifest differently from a cognitive standpoint, however one is not more predisposed to their own close-mindedness than the other. NTJs tend to have unshakeable internal perceptions of truth and meaning and will sometimes dismiss information that doesn't corroborate, while the NTPs flex and adapt to new information rather quickly and readily but the moment you challenge one of the Pillars in which their model is based they may cling and dismiss because they trust it as much as NTJs "trust" Ni.

    In the end, I don't think it will be the fault of functions, but more the fault of the individual. The "perception" may be that NTJs are more closeminded simply because the limiting of options and perspectives tends to be manifested externally with Te, and is thus far more visible and nobody else really sees the Ni juggling going on underneath, whereas this is the opposite for NTPs.
    I agree with everything you said here.

    Quote Originally Posted by guesswho View Post
    Why would NTPs be close minded?
    Jock pointed it out pretty clearly, I thought...

    The way I see it is that if a core piece of your "model" is questioned, you guys will often completely close your minds to it.

    It's similar to how, if a core part of an NTJs vision is questioned, we will often completely close our minds to it.

    In each case, the individual involved can respond differently. There's not only one behavioral option. But this is the response these types tend to default to.

    NTJs tend to be viewed as more close-minded since their top judgment function is externally focused, while NTPs top externally focused function is a perceiving one.

  7. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    I'd say he's right about INTPc; highly exclusive "pat yourselves on the back" community that's essentially bent on self reinforcement and validation that treats a dissenting personality like a plague. The problem is, I'd say a fairly good chunk of the members over there probably aren't INTPs, but it's really become a place that "idolizes" the INTP temperament and all the membership emulates it as best they can. Every single type community on the internet takes on this quality, which I think is funny/sad/interesting/whatever you want to call it.
    Most mammals seems to exhibit this trait, and humans are especially vulnerable if you put a fence around them. I doubt the behavior you see at intpc has much to do with type.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fritzl_case

    When you have a child. To be sure to make them close minded is to isolate and imprint subjective realities. These early mental barriers are resistant to eradication.

    I don't think there is a difference between the types. I suspect it's environmentally decided. So either type can be more or less open minded.



    .

  8. #118
    Senior Member RedAmazoneFriendZone's Avatar
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    Default NTP et NTJ

    Hi everyone !

    I wanted to come back on this subject of "close-minded" NTP and NTJ.

    My partner is NTJ, ENTJ.

    I think he can seem very "close-minded" to the persons who don't know him or/and are not enough T.

    He is very much straight talking. He has some ideas (mainly One he thinks fair and right) about any subject.

    He defends them strongly. I laugh to the words he uses because they really make sense and they represent strong abstract images.



    As an ENTP I am very much curious too, like NTJ are. But I can keep things I find stupid for myself

    He on the contrary feels bad if he cannot express his opinions. Mainly if he likes you !

    I seem to be more sensitive about others judgement (even if I say I do not care) so I like to see if the person is going to react or not to what I'm saying.
    A good ear is enought to me.
    Instead of my dear ENTJ who prefers fighting.

    I think I'm an observer of what can be funny, enjoyable, amazing, and non-conformist.
    He is alsao very excitable, but seems more selective, more into war, and more into "being right".

    I understood I have to develop the P not to be affected my the J.
    And the relationship is more balanced this way.

    If the J has good humour + a good developped J I find the J interesting enough.
    If the J I know (not only the ENTJ but also other types) does not have enough F or P, it is a bit boring to me, even if he/she is right.

    So, "close-minded" or not, I'm not conservative at all, As communicating, creating new ideas, and concepts is an honour !




    But generally speaking, I'd say P or J is maybe not so important, maturity, generosity, curiosity, and love for oneself & others seem to be much more than those 2 letters.
    ALL THAT WE SEE OR SEEM TO BE IS BUT A DREAM WITHIN A DREAM

  9. #119
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    I suspect that most NTJs are mistaken STJs, so it makes the question harder to answer.

    It's a tougher question than it appears on the surface because Ti is about reasoning that is part of personal identity moreso than Te. To the extent that ego is invested in Ti, it is closed minded. To the extent that it sees itself as superior to Te, it is to that same extent closed minded. Rigidity and self-investment/ego go hand-in-hand.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  10. #120
    failed poetry slam career chubber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExNinjaTropPervertie View Post
    Hi everyone !

    I wanted to come back on this subject of "close-minded" NTP and NTJ.

    My partner is NTJ, ENTJ.

    I think he can seem very "close-minded" to the persons who don't know him or/and are not enough T.

    He is very much straight talking. He has some ideas (mainly One he thinks fair and right) about any subject.

    He defends them strongly. I laugh to the words he uses because they really make sense and they represent strong abstract images.



    As an ENTP I am very much curious too, like NTJ are. But I can keep things I find stupid for myself

    He on the contrary feels bad if he cannot express his opinions. Mainly if he likes you !

    I seem to be more sensitive about others judgement (even if I say I do not care) so I like to see if the person is going to react or not to what I'm saying.
    A good ear is enought to me.
    Instead of my dear ENTJ who prefers fighting.

    I think I'm an observer of what can be funny, enjoyable, amazing, and non-conformist.
    He is alsao very excitable, but seems more selective, more into war, and more into "being right".

    I understood I have to develop the P not to be affected my the J.
    And the relationship is more balanced this way.

    If the J has good humour + a good developped J I find the J interesting enough.
    If the J I know (not only the ENTJ but also other types) does not have enough F or P, it is a bit boring to me, even if he/she is right.

    So, "close-minded" or not, I'm not conservative at all, As communicating, creating new ideas, and concepts is an honour !




    But generally speaking, I'd say P or J is maybe not so important, maturity, generosity, curiosity, and love for oneself & others seem to be much more than those 2 letters.
    What are you on about when you talk P or J?

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