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  1. #1
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Default Things that can hinder INTP's from being liked

    Reason #1. Playing devil's advocate (or challenging everything that another person says):

    Real conversation I had recently:
    Guy: Hey, we got some rain lately!
    INTP: Yep!
    Guy: I won't have to water my lawn for a while now.
    INTP: Oh?!
    Guy: Well, I don't water it anyways because the water in this town is so expensive. If it doesn't rain, I just let my lawn die.
    INTP: Water? Expensive?
    Guy: Heck yes it's expensive.
    INTP: How expensive could it really be?
    Guy: Well, let's just say that 2 summers ago I didn't water my lawn very often. Then last summer I decided to water it to keep it green and I compared my bills from the previous summer and my bills were about $5 more per month! Just to water my lawn occasionally!
    INTP: So 5 bucks is expensive?
    Guy: Well, yeah! How would you like to find out that your hours at work are going to be cut and that you'd be making less money from now on?
    INTP: Well, my hours just did get cut last week, but all I'm saying is that it would seem to me that if keeping your lawn green is something that's important to someone, then $5 per month would be well worth it.

    At this point, the guy clearly seemed frustrated. I felt kind of bad as we parted ways, but I'm not sure what other approach I could have taken.

    I just flat out disagree with him and I wasn't mean about it, I just stated my case. 5 bucks isn't worth moaning about. And if it is, then just don't water your lawn. End of story. I almost wanted to say, "Keep watering your lawn. I'll send you 5 bucks every month in the mail." Is the cynicism and truthfulness downright rude? Arghhhh!!! :steam:

    What are some other reasons people may not take well to us?
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

  2. #2
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    I'm not sure what other approach I could have taken.
    rly?
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  3. #3
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    just tell him that if your lawn isnt worth 5$ per month, dont water it
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  4. #4
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    At this point, the guy clearly seemed frustrated. I felt kind of bad as we parted ways, but I'm not sure what other approach I could have taken.
    Reason #1. Playing devil's advocate (or challenging everything that another person says):
    ^ Yeah, this. Challenge something if it makes sense to challenge....don't challenge it without understanding the position first, just for the sake of.

    I think the guy might have been frustrated because it seems that you were being contrarian just for the sake of, only to, at the end, point out the same conclusion he told you at the beginning of the conversation. It shows that you weren't truly listening to him, and/or understanding what he was saying. And that you were just trying to be smart with him (for an ego boost?).

    It's like you basically repeating his original sentiment, in a way that makes it seem as if you had this insight while he didn't. Which truly wasn't the case.

    Case in point:

    Guy: Well, I don't water it anyways because the water in this town is so expensive. If it doesn't rain, I just let my lawn die.

    [....conversation continues]..........

    INTP: Well, my hours just did get cut last week, but all I'm saying is that it would seem to me that if keeping your lawn green is something that's important to someone, then $5 per month would be well worth it.
    He said that a while ago, that the lawn wasn't important to him, when he said that he'd rather let his lawn die than spend $5 on it [it's implied that he didn't truly care about his lawn - as he'd rather it be watered for FREE/rain].

    For him, expense trumps lawn-care. This would mean that the money is more important than the lawn. You didn't say anything new to him, that he didn't already state beforehand. It's stating the obvious and making it seem insightful.

    For me, a more intriguing angle to the conversation would have been to pick up on the angle of "expense" for limited resources, like water, and taxation on such stuff to make people conscious about their use [thus limiting abuse] of such resources.

    ***

    I have had a few conversations with some INTPs where similar things happen. Without truly understanding what I'm trying to say, they question/oppose, only to state the same conclusion that I started off with, in a manner that seems as if they're telling me something new/insightful or different than what I was originally saying - which isn't the case. They just, in a roundabout, time-consuming way, came back to my original point. Frustrating.

  5. #5
    Senior Member LunarMoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    At this point, the guy clearly seemed frustrated. I felt kind of bad as we parted ways, but I'm not sure what other approach I could have taken.
    He really didn't care about how much the water was actually worth. He was simply attempting to make small talk and was bringing up the water to startup the conversation. At this point you probably should have related a similar experience involving yourself, sympathized with his plight ("Wow, that's pretty awful!"), or inquired more deeply about his situation.
    Surgeons replace one of your neurons with a microchip that duplicates its input-output functions. You feel and behave exactly as before. Then they replace a second one, and a third one, and so on, until more and more of your brain becomes silicon. Since each microchip does exactly what the neuron did, your behavior and memory never change. Do you even notice the difference? Does it feel like dying? Is some other conscious entity moving in with you?
    -Steven Pinker on the Ship of Theseus Paradox

  6. #6
    Aquaria mrcockburn's Avatar
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    Yes, of course that's annoying. Do you have Asperger's or something?

    Like the guy above me said, it's just small talk. No need to jump up and do a cost/benefit analysis at some random comment he makes.

    If it was me, I'd probably laugh at his comment about just letting the lawn die and then change the topic to something a bit more interesting.

    Mail him the $5 anyway, to apologize for forcing you both to obsess about the cost of watering lawns. He'd probably have preferred to just watch the grass grow die. *yawwwwn*
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  7. #7
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Ha ha. Interesting replies. The fact that I was a jerk in that conversation is sort of the whole point of the thread. I'm doing a little self-reflection here and trying to take note of the things that I (and INTP's) possibly do to alienate people.

    I wasn't trying to prove my logical superiority or anything like that. I was acknowledging my frustration with his small talk and acknowledging that I handled it wrong and acknowledging that I was at a loss for other ways to handle it. That's why I felt bad after the conversation was over. At the time, I felt like I could have "sympathized" with the $5/month hit to his budget, but I think it would have been a fake sympathy.

    I think it has to do with (a) being in my head so much (and when people interrupt with random conversations like this, I'm caught off guard - like, "huh? what? Wait, what are we talking about now?", and (b) impatience with things that don't seem to be "major, big picture issues".

    And, no, I don't have aspergers. My buddy who I had that conversation with might have walked away thinking that I do, but I don't.

    LunarMoon, thanks for the straightforward response. You make it sound simple and I should look at it from a much "simpler" point of view. Sometimes, I'm just thinking, "Are we really talking about this?" Something I need to work on I guess because I don't want to be an arrogant jerk.

    Back to the point of this thread. Are there other things INTP's do (whether on purpose or unknowingly) that alienate us from people or cause them to not like us?
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

  8. #8
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
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    Ha, FWIW, I totally agree with you. Complaining about an extra $5 a month is annoying. Why even talk about it?
    Something Witty

  9. #9
    Aquaria mrcockburn's Avatar
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    Yes it would have been fake sympathy, but that's just what socializing entails sometimes. In fact, he'd probably expect you to mildly and briefly display "fake sympathy" and then drop the subject and move on.

    Time for yooou to dust off your old Fe, good sir.
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  10. #10
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    Reason #1. Playing devil's advocate (or challenging everything that another person says):

    Real conversation I had recently:
    Guy: Hey, we got some rain lately!
    INTP: Yep!
    Guy: I won't have to water my lawn for a while now.
    INTP: Oh?!
    Guy: Well, I don't water it anyways because the water in this town is so expensive. If it doesn't rain, I just let my lawn die.
    INTP: Water? Expensive?
    Guy: Heck yes it's expensive.
    INTP: How expensive could it really be?
    Guy: Well, let's just say that 2 summers ago I didn't water my lawn very often. Then last summer I decided to water it to keep it green and I compared my bills from the previous summer and my bills were about $5 more per month! Just to water my lawn occasionally!
    INTP: So 5 bucks is expensive?
    Guy: Well, yeah! How would you like to find out that your hours at work are going to be cut and that you'd be making less money from now on?
    INTP: Well, my hours just did get cut last week, but all I'm saying is that it would seem to me that if keeping your lawn green is something that's important to someone, then $5 per month would be well worth it.

    At this point, the guy clearly seemed frustrated. I felt kind of bad as we parted ways, but I'm not sure what other approach I could have taken.

    I just flat out disagree with him and I wasn't mean about it, I just stated my case. 5 bucks isn't worth moaning about. And if it is, then just don't water your lawn. End of story. I almost wanted to say, "Keep watering your lawn. I'll send you 5 bucks every month in the mail." Is the cynicism and truthfulness downright rude? Arghhhh!!! :steam:

    What are some other reasons people may not take well to us?
    ha! i think that's hilarious...was going to say i agree with the intp guy but i guess that was you...yeah? anyway yeah...peoples logic is weird

    like...my ex istj wanted to drive around with towels on the floor mats in the car...it drove me nuts it was obviously there to protect the mats but..the point is so that it won't be ugly yeah? and that looks good? or what? or is it just so that once you're done with it it still looks good? but it never looked good while you had it...it's like the plastic couches shit...so completely illogical....in my head at least.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

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