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  1. #41
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZPowers View Post
    My hostile arrogance aside (it's probably up to others to confirm or deny that, since I imagine I'm biased), I'm gonna say that's a little hypocritical from the guy who has been yelling people are arrogant again and again, called the OP "prickish", and then insulted me to my face several times, essentially refuting my views on proper small talk etiquette (Seinfeldian though it may be) exclusively via ad hominem attacks. Maybe I've been hyperbolic, but I haven't straight up insulted people, much less multiple people.
    Try reading the thread again, sparky. I didn't insult anyone until you decided to unleash your particular brand of pomposity on the good people here.

    See, here's the funny thing - ad hominem is entirely appropriate here, because were talking about social situations and behavior. There isn't going to be a logical reason why you're sounding like an arrogant ass... you're just sounding like one, and yeah, I'm gonna call you out on it. What's more, I'm not going to be nice about it, because the consistent pattern so far is that people being nice about it doesn't get through to you.

    Notice, for one, that you're interpreting my criticisms of behavior as attacks on character. Did I say he was "prickish" or did I say that his responses were? Now, he might be the nicest guy on the planet 23.75 hours a day, but you know, for those 15 minutes, his actions corresponded with that of a jerk. Nothing wrong with pointing that out. And yet, you acted as if I called him a Nazi or something.

    Then you come at me with the oh-so-typical "the rest of the world are just a bunch of mindless cretins, why should I debase myself to their petty tittering?" of high school kids with a lot of brains but not so many friends. There's a reason for this - you're not as special as you think. Plenty of people smarter than you who have lived, plenty who will live after you're gone. However, the only ones you have are the ones you're with right now, and like it or not, you need them. So do them a favor, and treat them like human beings with actual feelings and desires that are equal to your own, and not like defective sources of amusement? K?

  2. #42
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    "Hey guess what? I picked my nose last night for 15 minutes before I went to bed. It was awesome. You should have been there. Some were green and crusty, some were bloody. It was a real hoot. Now if I can just somehow convince the city that the accumulation of "stuff" that came out of my nose is worth 5 dollars, I could give it to them in leiu of them raising my bill by 5 dollars every month. Whadduya think about that?"

    I mean, I want to be able to be nice in these situations. I joke about it cuz it sometimes seems that meaningless, but I need to get to the point to where I'm like, "Dude, that's great! Let's go to your place, pick up the boogers, take them down to the city and see what the mayor will offer you for them. There's potential here! And I like the way you think! A true entreprenerial spirit."
    Aww, that one's easy - "dude, you're a sick fuck" with a chuckle. It's the truth, ain't it?

  3. #43
    All Natural! All Good!
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    Quote Originally Posted by hilo View Post
    Only they turn out to be a habitual small-talker who will keep regurgitating minutia of their lives until you find a means of escape.
    Oh my god. That is so annoying. I know a few people that do this even after we have known each other for about a year now. I don't know how anyone can only talk about how they ate pizza last night, and worse think that other people actually give a shit about it. I'm thinking, "So? Are we seriously talking about this?" but the other person looks so interested.
    Strychnine is all-natural,
    So strychnine is all good.
    It's Godly and righteous,
    So eat it, you should.
    Who are you to refuse nature's will?


    Don't use the multiquote; it was planted by the devil to deceive us.

    Social Role: Asscrack/Piece of Shit/Public Defecator/Spiteful Urinator


    A different type everyday - so no need to type me anymore. But feel free to enjoy the sound of your own asscrack.

  4. #44
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    I think onemoretime made a good point. These annoying little things are sort of how a lot of people do try to connect to other people. Because he doesn't know you well, he isn't bringing up something terribly personal. The whole point of small talk is to get eye contact, a smile and a nod so that you can get on with the business at hand or so that you can deepen the relationship in some way or get a go ahead to talk. By doing what you did, you are saying, "Don't waste my time. You are not worth talking to". That's fine if that's your intended message.

    If it's not though, you may need to look at small talk in a different way. It's not really there for what the content of it is. It's there as a social device (which you don't consider important, but a lot of people really do). In that sense, it doesn't really matter what you say at all, just so long as you are basically agreeable and supportive. You unfortunately are likely to be stuck with some element of this even from a spouse or child in the future, so learning to respond in some way that makes the other person feel supported is probably worth your while even if this guy doesn't matter at all to you. You can still disengage while remaining polite by making a wrap it up kind of statement or by offering something different to discuss that he may be able to switch to.

  5. #45
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZPowers View Post
    Would I actually have told someone off for sharing such a pointless thing? No. It would probably actually go:

    Person: [Insert exceedingly banal problem]
    Me: Oh, that sucks.
    Me, in my head: Why are you telling me this? Why do you think I want to discuss this thing, which is entirely boring and unrelated to me, with you, essentially a stranger?

    Unless he very quickly changed the topic to something I could actually talk about, that's it. End of conversation. If he tried to press on with the same topic, I'd probably claim that I had to go or was in a hurry or something. No one has gained anything. The entire exchange was utterly pointless and a waste of time.

    I'll talk to strangers, but if all they're talking about is how cute it is when their kitty Snookums, a cat I do not know nor will ever know, sneezes, then I am going to leave as quickly as possible because I am going to consider it a waste of time.
    Yes, yes, yes! These are almost word-for-word the thoughts that run through my mind in similar situations. Recently a tree at the edge of my yard was knocked down in a storm. A neighbor lady wandered by while I was cleaning it up and asked, "did the storm do that?" I almost told her no, we had a troll attack during the night, but settled for a bland, "apparently". She moved on. Later, the neigbor across the street started in, while trimming his bushes:

    Neighbor: You're getting that taken care of pretty quickly.
    Coriolis: Yes. [thinking: What am I supposed to say to this? Why prolong the cleanup? I have other things to do.]
    N: Do you know how old that tree was?
    C: No [and much as I take an interest in the vegetation on my property, I have other priorities right now.]
    N: I counted 70 rings on one of those big logs.
    C: I see. [Just how much interest does this fellow have in my defunct tree? Maybe I should offer him a piece, then he can repeat his count at leisure to make sure it was accurate . . . ]

    WHY can't these folks just leave me to clean up my yard in peace? This sort of thing truly drives me round the bend. Now, if a neighbor came by needing something, perhaps even wanting some of the wood, I would be very attentive to them since their interruption would have a purpose.

    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    The whole point of small talk is to get eye contact, a smile and a nod so that you can get on with the business at hand or so that you can deepen the relationship in some way or get a go ahead to talk. By doing what you did, you are saying, "Don't waste my time. You are not worth talking to". That's fine if that's your intended message.
    For me, the context plays a big role. When I am engaged in some task or project and trying to get it done efficiently and quickly, that is the business at hand, and chatting with neighbors about topics that I find petty and uninteresting is a much lower priority. The neighbor may be worth talking to, but not then and there about that. If I am leisurely perusing the landscaping and not engaged in anything particular, I am more tolerant of interruption and more receptive to overtures like the above.

  6. #46
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    you're not as special as you think. Plenty of people smarter than you who have lived, plenty who will live after you're gone. However, the only ones you have are the ones you're with right now, and like it or not, you need them. So do them a favor, and treat them like human beings with actual feelings and desires that are equal to your own, and not like defective sources of amusement? K?
    I appreciate your input, onemoretime. I really do. The only thing I can say in response to this part of your post (and I don't disagree with it), is that I've already admitted that I acted like a jerk. You're simply re-hashing this fact. You're "re-pointing" the finger. Me not caring about his problems has already been established.

    As an ENTP yourself, has anyone ever talked about things that bored you to tears? And did you ever react a little too quickly and a little too harshly? I see ENTP's on here all the time saying stuff like, "I tend to hurt people's feelings by making fun of them." "I make jokes about people and they don't like me because of it."

    I mean, it's the same thing, right? Lack of sensitivity? But, I guess we could always say that those are the "unhealthy" ENTP's saying that. A "healthy" ENTP wouldn't do that. I was a jerk. I want to be less of a jerk. That's the whole point of the thread. Saying, "you were a jerk" all over again does nothing here.
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

  7. #47
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    Is there anyway you can redirect them or make it clear under which circumstances they could hope for a better reception? This sounds unpleasant for both parties.

    Speaking of this subject, Prince Phillip was on a trip with Queen Elisabeth and was asked by some unimaginative official how their flight had been. The Prince said, "Have you ever ridden on a plane?" "Yes", they responded. "It was like that", he said. From the sounds of many of these conversations and the stories I've read about him, I wonder if he's an INTP.

  8. #48
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    I think onemoretime made a good point. These annoying little things are sort of how a lot of people do try to connect to other people. Because he doesn't know you well, he isn't bringing up something terribly personal. The whole point of small talk is to get eye contact, a smile and a nod so that you can get on with the business at hand or so that you can deepen the relationship in some way or get a go ahead to talk. By doing what you did, you are saying, "Don't waste my time. You are not worth talking to". That's fine if that's your intended message.

    If it's not though, you may need to look at small talk in a different way. It's not really there for what the content of it is. It's there as a social device (which you don't consider important, but a lot of people really do). In that sense, it doesn't really matter what you say at all, just so long as you are basically agreeable and supportive. You unfortunately are likely to be stuck with some element of this even from a spouse or child in the future, so learning to respond in some way that makes the other person feel supported is probably worth your while even if this guy doesn't matter at all to you. You can still disengage while remaining polite by making a wrap it up kind of statement or by offering something different to discuss that he may be able to switch to.
    OK. This is good.

    And yeah, the fact that I gave him that vibe of "I don't have time for you" is why I felt bad. My intent was not to make the guy feel bad or to turn another human being away. I do have some compassion, believe it or not. It's just that there's a lot of things going on in the course of a day (and I was busy at the time), and this stuff he was coming at me with seemed so very unimportant at the moment. But, you're right - it's a social device - a way of connecting. A "meeting place" so to speak. Then, things can take off from there and at least the guy feels understood to some extent. It's a bit of a challenge for the INTP I think. But, that was the whole point of my OP - I suck at it and my relationships with others suffer because of it. Therefore, I want to improve.
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

  9. #49
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    I appreciate your input, onemoretime. I really do. The only thing I can say in response to this part of your post (and I don't disagree with it), is that I've already admitted that I acted like a jerk. You're simply re-hashing this fact. You're "re-pointing" the finger. Me not caring about his problems has already been established.

    As an ENTP yourself, has anyone ever talked about things that bored you to tears? And did you ever react a little too quickly and a little too harshly? I see ENTP's on here all the time saying stuff like, "I tend to hurt people's feelings by making fun of them." "I make jokes about people and they don't like me because of it."

    I mean, it's the same thing, right? Lack of sensitivity? But, I guess we could always say that those are the "unhealthy" ENTP's saying that. A "healthy" ENTP wouldn't do that. I was a jerk. I want to be less of a jerk. That's the whole point of the thread. Saying, "you were a jerk" all over again does nothing here.
    Sorry if it came across that way, but that wasn't directed at you. You're not trying to justify the behavior, so I don't think it's a bad thing.

    Sure, I've been in those ridiculously boring conversations. And boring they remained while I tried to intellectualize them all the time. They became a lot more interesting when I finally figured out what fidelia was talking about - intellectualizing isn't the point! It's the empathy, and the good feelings that being there for someone engenders, that is the whole point of the affair.

    You could see the guy talking about the lawn in purely analytical terms "well, he really doesn't have it as bad as he thinks", or think about it in emotional terms "wow, it seems like they're getting you in even the pettiest of places these days." For the booger comment, it's more like "hah, that's disgusting, but it sure would show them!" You see why the last two create a better response? You're saying to the other guy "hey, I'm on your side, and I want to see you be well."

    This is at the core of what it means to be human. Unfortunately, xNTPs seem to have a big issue with "being human" for a long time... but we've got to get around that if we want to be healthy human beings with an integrated personality, rather than the disjointed one that leads to self-doubt.

  10. #50
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    Speaking of this subject, Prince Phillip was on a trip with Queen Elisabeth and was asked by some unimaginative official how their flight had been. The Prince said, "Have you ever ridden on a plane?" "Yes", they responded. "It was like that", he said. From the sounds of many of these conversations and the stories I've read about him, I wonder if he's an INTP.
    That's a funny response by the Prince, no?
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

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