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Thread: Is it genetic?

  1. #31
    ReflecTcelfeR
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    This may show somewhat of a genetic approach, but I would contend that we'd also need to know which classes each did better in. Seems small, but different subjects require different processes.

    This is to Indy's comment.

  2. #32
    Senior Member IndyGhost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seymour View Post
    I've seen a few of those programs since I'm an identical twin, myself. There are some theories that twins raised together become more different in order not to compete (and to establish their own independent identities). Still, those identical twins raised apart studies do often turn up eerie similarities and parallels.

    Since my twin brother is straight and conservative and I'm gay and (relatively) liberal, I will say that genetics aren't everything. Also, my twin is definitely a Thinker while I fall more on the Feeling side.
    identical or fraternal twins? i'm under the impression that being gay is a biological thing, and not a choice. so i'm thinking you two are most likely fraternal twins.
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  3. #33
    Senior Member IndyGhost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecttcelfeR View Post
    This may show somewhat of a genetic approach, but I would contend that we'd also need to know which classes each did better in. Seems small, but different subjects require different processes.

    This is to Indy's comment.
    agreed. but i can't say i have that information readily available. i did however come across a few different videos on nature vs. nurture in separated twins...

    YouTube - Separated Twins

    i don't know how legit these stories are... but it would be interesting to know more about.
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  4. #34
    Vaguely Precise Seymour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndyAnnaJoan View Post
    identical or fraternal twins? i'm under the impression that being gay is a biological thing, and not a choice. so i'm thinking you two are most likely fraternal twins.
    I am an identical twin. If one identical twin is gay, there is about a 50% chance (varies a bit depending on the study) that the other twin is gay. That's highly statistically significant, but not 100% deterministic.

    Some theorize that hormone levels in the womb are also involved—for example, one's chances of being gay (if you are male) go up the more older brothers you have that share the same birth mother, even if you aren't raised with them.

    I agree that sexual orientation can't be changed (at least in the vast majority of cases), but that doesn't mean it's always 100% genetic.

  5. #35
    ReflecTcelfeR
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    I know very little on genetics, but I imagine with twins it's very dependant on embryo division and if the twins were divided similiarly. I think with the video 'Seperated Twins' this may be apparent in their metabolisms, of course we aren't given any information about their previously lives only that they acted similiarly within in the different families, but if they acted similiarly but appear different something is different between them. I don't know though this is what came to mind after watching.

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    Senior Member IndyGhost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seymour View Post
    I am an identical twin. If one identical twin is gay, there is about a 50% chance (varies a bit depending on the study) that the other twin is gay. That's highly statistically significant, but not 100% deterministic.

    Some theorize that hormone levels in the womb are also involved—for example, one's chances of being gay (if you are male) go up the more older brothers you have that share the same birth mother, even if you aren't raised with them.

    I agree that sexual orientation can't be changed (at least in the vast majority of cases), but that doesn't mean it's always 100% genetic.
    that's really interesting. so what you're getting at, is that most likely it is the hormone levels in the womb that created the difference between you two?

    i'm no science buff, so i can't say i know for certain how all of this works or comes into play.
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    I only know flawed people who are still worth loving."
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    Senior Member IndyGhost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecttcelfeR View Post
    I know very little on genetics, but I imagine with twins it's very dependant on embryo division and if the twins were divided similiarly. I think with the video 'Seperated Twins' this may be apparent in their metabolisms, of course we aren't given any information about their previously lives only that they acted similiarly within in the different families, but if they acted similiarly but appear different something is different between them. I don't know this is what came to mind when watching.
    haha. yeah, i was a little stuck on that too.
    "I don't know a perfect person.
    I only know flawed people who are still worth loving."
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  8. #38
    Vaguely Precise Seymour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndyAnnaJoan View Post
    that's really interesting. so what you're getting at, is that most likely it is the hormone levels in the womb that created the difference between you two?

    i'm no science buff, so i can't say i know for certain how all of this works or comes into play.
    I think we don't know all the factors involved. I certainly don't know all the factors involved in my particular case. I think it's reasonably clear there's some genetic component and some environmental components (including hormone levels in the womb). There may be other environmental components we don't know about.

    I was mostly just pointing out that while genetics are very influential, they aren't everything. I wouldn't be surprised if there were genetic influences on one's functional preferences (as it's pretty clear there is on the E/I axis) but those genetic factors may interact with environmental factors.

  9. #39
    Intriguing.... Quinlan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcda View Post
    Jung would have learnt from Freud that the same childhood traumas could lead to different symptoms in different people. but yous till can't seperate the symptom from the trauma. Its neithe rpurely nqature nor nurture, nor a balance. Rather an interaction.

    Fair enough if you want to believe Jung dude, there's no mroe "proof" of my view than yours. But Jung's view just seems like a simplification when more viable theories had already been proposed.

    I agree that it is an interaction, to me finding your "natural" type is an attempt to peel back those environmental influences. You can probably never do it completely but from a self development perspective whether it is genetic or happened in early childhood I believe it's entirely possible to be raised as say an ENTJ yet still have a "natural" preference for ISFP. Just as you can be raised as a righthander even though you are "naturally" left handed. You can write with both hands but one will feel more natural/comfortable/fulfilling.

    Was your INTP preference always encouraged and allowed to develop naturally or were there ever pressures on you to exhibit E S F and J traits?

    It's the difference between asking "what job would I be good at?" and "what job would I enjoy and find fulfilling" the answer can be very different.

    Maybe this is just my Fi bias but I consider skills to be much more malleable than preferences. Like you can teach a left hander to write with their right hand but how do you influence a left hander to prefer writing with their right hand? It seems like there will always be a backlash, or like Jung said neuroticism.
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  10. #40
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan View Post
    I agree that it is an interaction, to me finding your "natural" type is an attempt to peel back those environmental influences. You can probably never do it completely but from a self development perspective whether it is genetic or happened in early childhood I believe it's entirely possible to be raised as say an ENTJ yet still have a "natural" preference for ISFP. Just as you can be raised as a righthander even though you are "naturally" left handed. You can write with both hands but one will feel more natural/comfortable/fulfilling.
    I see it in a different way. If you were "raised as an ENTJ" but displayed strong ISFP tendencies, these would have still developed in response toy our upbringing - just like a spoilt child can either grow up cold and unfeeling, or soft and gullible (and the two are sides of the same coin - one represents the reaction to the fear of being the other deep down).

    Though, you are right that "disposition" as Jung said plays some part - this is why in some cases the child raised as an ENTJ will develop to positively take on those traits as their own, whereas another will invert them and become their negation.

    Still there's no more proof of my view than yours. It just makes more sense to me.
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