Sounds like the description of any typical N profile.dunno if you know this, but quite many INTP descriptions say that usually when INTP comes to false conclusions, its not because of poor logic, but because of overlooking details.
I believe two of these are what is to be brought about with the thought of the misunderstanding INTP. There may be a lack of awareness in the individual themselves which brings the INTP to filter the information in as if given raw, giving the INTP the inability to use external subjective information as a guide to connect to the conclusions of the individual.This same thing can happen when talking with people, but the 'overlooking details' part comes from the other person not communicating some central point to the context that you try to communicate. its either missing in his thinking(he is wrong), its there but not communicated(his communication is flawed) or im missing something that i can use to combine what seems illogical to other info to make it logical(im missing some info or had wrong info about something).
And so with the Fi abstraction the previous statement folds on. The lack of that worth with the INTPs filtering things out. The lack of empathetic alignment of the individual throws off the INTP when the individual does not communicate in exact terms. A difference with the INTJ.Then ofc there is the differences in communication between Ni dom and Ti dom. INTJ communicates abstraction(things that seem relevant) about his internal perception, INTP communicates abstraction of logic(central points that can be used to build logical understanding).
Also these abstractions are made from different elements. with INTJ the internal perception(Ni abstraction) is built from details and facts from external world, INTJ also uses abstraction of worth(Fi) which tells what is worth to be takwn into the abstraction. with INTP the logical bastraction is built from worth of things in external world(Fe, including what some info is worth/is it worth taking into consideration) and big picture perception(Ne), INTP also uses abstraction based of what is(Si).
And degree of worth abstraction(Fi) in INTJ changes based on the external perceptions(Se) and external facts(Te). same with INTPs Si abstraction, but it changes on principles of Fe and Ne.
Bingo. You need to be very accurate to the INTP in your wording. My initial statement in the OP regarded as INTPs being most prone to the such misunderstanding.What you said about INTPs drawing false conclusions(thinking he understands, but in reality doesent) is true in communication if you fail to communicate properly.
The thread is highlighting each NT type falling to the misunderstanding of the arguments of another. Not each type being wrong in their arguments. INTJs will understand what you say and how you see things but may not agree with it (because of the ego or whatever else). The conflict arises at such a point with such arguments.but what way more annoying is that INTJs are prone of doing the same thing, but when gathering information freely from a source. because what INTJ is doing is sort of reprogramming his whole thinking about the subject and will communicate things that are simply not true, but the INTJ will be convinced that it is. thats because of Fi is doing the rational abstractions -> he thinks that some info thats not even true is relevant to his conclusions and he wont let go of his false conclusions, because the whole system of thought would fail and ego doesent want that to happen.
Yep, I can see where the INTP falls to arguments with an INTJ. My initial post said the ENTJ tend to be the worst but I can certainly see the inclinations. I've seen a bit of your trouble with INTJs on the many threads you reply to them but what I'd really like to have a look at is the play you'd give in a debate with an ENTJ.From what i have noticed INTJs are the worst type to communicate properly AND worst type to give reasoning for thought, also one of the most stubborn type to change conclusions, even tho their thought has been totally debunked.. even my mentally ill INFP is doing so good on this that i got no problems on communicating with him properly(he gives sufficient reasoning if i ask for it or changes his perception if he cant reason, except ofc when it comes to matter of worth), no problems with ENTP(he does seem to be able to communicate with INTJ better than me). also INFP and INTJ(who are room mates) have hard time communicating properly.
Anyways cba to write more now
I'd suppose ENTPs who fall to Ti usage within debate scatter themselves with inaccurate conclusions based on Ne pattern inducing and Ti connections.
Personally, intuitively speaking, I would say ENTPs tend to be greatly inaccurate approximately 1 out of 5 times in their deductions. I'd assume it's fair.
I'd assume many INTJs tend to either expect you to do your self work to figure it out or to take them for granted with what they say. The difference between the levels of maturity within different INTJs would perhaps be the tact used to give out the given information. The blind spot is perhaps the thought that the other individual may have the given empathy to figure it out and so types like the INTP might tend to fall short on such things.I'm not sure about that; and really, you're an INTJ so of course you understand them, while I typically can read an INTP's comments and understand exactly what they're saying and why, even if I disagree with it because I think they've overlooked something or have wrongly emphasized something.
To be honest, NTJ's kind of confound me; I can't "see into you" and see how you got to where you are and thus understand it, because you don't typically explain your logic. I do typically have NTJs nod and smile when I talk to them and explain, and they sound like they get what I'm saying and/or agree, but I don't get back that explanation in turn so I can see and follow their own thinking and see that we are in sync.