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  1. #11
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecttcelfeR View Post
    I'm inclined to disagree here at the very beginning, because you start yourself out with a contradiction. Plus many animals think with the pack mentality, thus concretely destroying your idea, or the definition of a philosopher. Only those able to think independently are able to call themselves philosophers.
    There is no such thing as purely independent thought - neither would such a thing be desirable. No philosopher in hsitory was a purely "independent" thinker.

    Neither is there such a thing as purely "pack mentality" thought (in people at least).

    A person's consciousness is the result of the interaction between themselves, other people and the material world.
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  2. #12
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blank View Post
    Meh, I think the whole look of a "proper" philosopher is bullshit, since it's very, very human to be mentally understanding of one object or event, and yet being emotionally repulsed by it at the same time.

    For example: I think survival of the fittest is the way of nature, and thus man should emulate itself in nature's image (as a byproduct of nature,) however, I am also disgusted at such a cutthroat, dog-eat-dog way of life.
    My answer to this is that it's not necessarry for humans to live like this, because we have evolved to become conscious beings and therefore can overcome animal savagery (which is based on scarcity of the essentials for life, something which existing technology is capable of eradicating, and which only exists in human society because of social conditions, not absolute scarcity).
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  3. #13
    ReflecTcelfeR
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcda View Post
    There is no such thing as purely independent thought - neither would such a thing be desirable. No philosopher in hsitory was a purely "independent" thinker.

    Neither is there such a thing as purely "pack mentality" thought (in people at least).

    A person's consciousness is the result of the interaction between themselves, other people and the material world.
    Then by Provokers definition no one can be a philosopher. I suppose that is a possibility.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecttcelfeR View Post
    I'm inclined to disagree here at the very beginning, because you start yourself out with a contradiction.
    The opening statement is straightforward and noncontradictory. Where is the contradiction?

    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecttcelfeR View Post
    Plus many animals think with the pack mentality, thus concretely destroying your idea, or the definition of a philosopher.
    It is not clear that the behavior of "many animals" destroys my conception of a philosopher. Please speak still more clearly and demonstrate why this is necessarily relevant.

    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecttcelfeR View Post
    Only those able to think independently are able to call themselves philosophers.
    How could it be otherwise? At any rate, independent thought is necessary but it alone is not sufficient. A poet may be able to think independently but lack the rigor, logic, consistency and theoretical genius that would be required for expounding a philosophy.

  5. #15
    . Blank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcda View Post
    My answer to this is that it's not necessarry for humans to live like this, because we have evolved to become conscious beings and therefore can overcome animal savagery (which is based on scarcity of the essentials for life, something which existing technology is capable of eradicating, and which only exists in human society because of social conditions, not absolute scarcity).
    "Animal savagery?" Humans are animals, and quite savage ones at that.
    Ti = 19 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Te = 16[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Ne = 16[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Fi = 15 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Si = 12 [][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Ni = 12 [][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Se = 11[][][][][][][][][][][]
    Fe = 0

    -----------------
    Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly;
    Man got to sit and wonder why, why, why;
    Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land;
    Man got to tell himself he understand

  6. #16
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blank View Post
    "Animal savagery?" Humans are animals, and quite savage ones at that.
    Humans are capable of savagery and civilization, becuase we have evolved conscious thought and therefore aren't slaves to our instincts or to the natural environment (rather we have become masters of the natural environment).

    Animals aren't capable of civilization, and are slaves to nature.
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  7. #17
    ReflecTcelfeR
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    Quote Originally Posted by Provoker View Post
    The opening statement is straightforward and noncontradictory. Where is the contradiction?



    It is not clear that the behavior of "many animals" destroys my conception of a philosopher. Please speak still more clearly and demonstrate why this is necessarily relevant.



    How could it be otherwise? At any rate, independent thought is necessary but it alone is not sufficient. A poet may be able to think independently but lack the rigor, logic, consistency and theoretical genius that would be required for expounding a philosophy.
    I wasn't thinking when I wrote this... sorry 'bout that.

  8. #18
    Branded with Satan murkrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SillySapienne View Post
    So, can a feeler in the typological/MBTI sense be a philosopher?

    Or, do all your tenets above preclude one who reasons from/with ethical foundations from ever being considered or qualified to be a true philosopher?
    Feelers reason from ethical foundations?

    Please explain!
    wails from the crypt.

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