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  1. #1
    Member VYCanisMajoris's Avatar
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    Question Do NTs believe in souls?

    I'm asking here cause i'm curious how many NTs will agree with me on a topic that not many people seem to agree with me on.

    Let me be clear and start by saying that i'm not speaking in any way of "Soul" as in the MUSIC or your personality that is the product of your time and experiences on Earth as well as passed down genetically from your parents. I am not talking about THE SOUL in that sense at all. I am talking about the SOUL as in something that can exist without your body.

    I'm an agnostic I always have been. Well, actually when I was a kid and my wonderful grandma was my Sunday school teacher I was actually... an Atheist. I never had the heart to tell her I thought the whole thing sounded as ridiculous as Santa Claus. And I never did throughout her whole life.

    I call myself an Agnostic now because I follow the definition of atheism as one who DENIES the existence of a god and agnostic as one who DOUBTS the existence of a god. And personally I don't know anything for sure besides what I had for breakfast.... and I quite like it that way because that means that I have more to learn about in the universe. In many ways I view Atheism as bad as religion. I do feel that humans have the capacity and will one day paint a pretty accurate picture of what the universe actually is. I do think religious views make it harder for humans to grow and learn as a species and i'm glad our society is slowly waking up from this.
    Anyway, I just felt my perspective on religion might be necessary to explain so that my question here might not be considered divisive.

    THE MEAT
    For me, like many people, growing up the idea of a SOUL was always just a given... It wasn't really questioned. I questioned God but the idea of a SOUL seemed more difficult to disbelieve. However, whenever I've actually thought about it i've realized. There really is just as much proof in God as there is in the soul..read: NONE. There is no proof so why do most people believe in it? There seems to be a bit of a stigma in our society where if you believe in having a SOUL then you are a Spiritual person, a warmer person a caring person. It's very similar to the stigma of being religious that is slowly dimming. When I tell people that I don't believe I have a soul. In the literal sense of those words. I am saying I believe I am a lifeless, uncharismatic person. Which actually isn't true at all. Basically, it isn't cool to not have a soul, to be soulless. Thus why you don't often hear people talking about it. I personally don't give a fuck. Thus, why i'm speaking of it here.

    What i've come to believe of "the soul". Is that it is definitely very connected to the idea of religion. It's no coincidence they have such similarities. Here is my very rough estimation of how the whole thing came to be and WHY so many people believe in the soul today. Remember, this is just my opinion.

    -Our ancestors lived their lives and had no idea what would happen themselves and their loved ones after they died.
    -Humans, all life, by nature, FEAR death. Humans FEAR what they don't understand. Ever notice that? People literally FEAR things they don't know or understand. Gay people, heavy metal music, rap music, Windows, Macintosh. Whatever it may be. The ultimate unknown though is DEATH.
    -So our ancestors invented an idea that would ease that fear. That idea was, THE SOUL. Notice that Many, many almost ALL religions incorporate a similar idea into their religion. With zero proof of it.
    To me this fear of death is actually what gave rise to the idea of the soul... after the idea of the SOUL they needed to invent something that EXPLAINED it. Each tribe of our ancestors started concocting their own views of that. This was RELIGION. A mythology created to explain and make sense of the idea of the soul. Such as: Where does my SOUL go when my body dies? Oh, it goes to a place called heaven where everything is peaches and cream. Your SOUL goes to that farm where Rover is and it stays there with Rover for all eternity. Your SOUL is moved forward or backward through time and put into a new body or a new type of animal depending how pleasant you were here on Earth. Your soul stays here on Earth wandering aimlessly trying to resolve unfinished tasks, solve crimes committed against you or your family. Usually though, the outcome of where your soul goes (in most mythologies of the soul) is dependent on your actions here on Earth.
    -There's no wonder that the idea of God is questioned so much because its FOUNDATION is based off of something which never existed.

    So what about the unexplained? What about it? The universe is a vast and amazing place most of which we know nothing about. There is bound to be things that are unexplained. Why invent supernatural things to explain it? To me the SUPERNATURAL does NOT exist. Everything in our universe is a part of NATURE. We humans by tradition have always considered that which we don't understand (such as LIFE ITSELF) as to be a SUPERNATURAL thing. That which we create "synthetic" and unnatural. Where in REALITY. There is no such thing as supernatural. I think when my body dies, this sense of being and all the memories that are held within my body will be gone as well and I still think it's a beautiful thing.

    So... do you believe in the soul? the idea that when you die.. your energy, spirit, soul, what have you continues to live and that your sense of being still thrives without your brain... just in another form?

    I'll end with a Douglas Adams quote:

    "Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?"-Douglas Adams


  2. #2
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    I believe I have a soul but I am not sure if every other human does. Doesn't it seems like a lot of them are just ghost monkeys? As if too many people but not enough souls to go around.
    I redact everything I have written or will write on this forum prior to, subsequent with and or after the fact of its writing. For entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously nor literally.

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    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    I'm not sure what there is to say, it seems pretty basic at core:

    The "soul" is a construct of some sort for which we have no evidence for or against.
    How can we believe or disbelieve it?

    In rational discourse, the soul (or the absence of it) can only ever be an assumption, not a given.

    EDIT: Ghost Monkeys. I like that phrase. It sounds like it should be someone's username.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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    Member VYCanisMajoris's Avatar
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    Jennifer, like you, I call myself an agnostic so I almost should be open to thinking it's a possibility. However, the idea of "the soul" is a much simpler thing to define than God. God can have many meanings and take on many forms. It could be the universe itself, it could be a being who created the universe itself. It's a very broad term to the point of being vague.

    I find the question "do you think you live on after your body dies" is much easier to agree or disagree with.

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    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    I don't think we can answer that question either.
    It's all speculation.

    We can choose to believe something, but that's different than knowing what will happen in the quantitative sense.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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    Member VYCanisMajoris's Avatar
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    Yeah, it's all speculation but i'm a sucker for speculation. I personally believe its similar to that time when you're asleep but not dreaming. Only zero brain activity. Maybe better described as what it was like and what you remember before you were conceived. Forevermore.

    It's a beautiful thing.

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    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    I think speculation is wonderful too.

    I just like to be very clear about what is speculation and what we can actually show/nail in place.

    ... curse of the realist idealist, ya know.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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    Senior Member Stevo's Avatar
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    I do not believe we have souls. There is no physical evidence for the existence of a soul, and I am not a fan of doubtful waffling when it comes to silly supernatural beliefs such as these. When someone says "There's no evidence for or against" then I say "no" by default until I am shown otherwise.

  9. #9
    "Everything in its place" fill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevo View Post
    When someone says "There's no evidence for or against" then I say "no" by default until I am shown otherwise.
    Why would you take any side if we've found no evidence supporting either?

    I have no evidence for or against the possibility of my dreams fulfilling in the future; should I say, "no, it won't happen," because in this case I would probably give up on my dreams and move to something else– if I'm not mistaken, that fits the model of a self-fulfilling prophecy.
    "Poor bastard. Wait 'till he sees the bats. "
    enneagram - 7/5/3

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    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    No
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

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