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  1. #61
    Member VYCanisMajoris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JHBowden View Post
    Followed through all of the way, and refusing to recoil from the consequences of our own thought, your view makes it mandatory to jettison language such as 'growth' and 'better', since they get deflated in the hardline nominalist view you're envisioning. Not only does the universe not take sides in your vision, we can't even claim we have likes and dislikes, unless we're using 'like' and 'dislike' as a shorthand to describe public behavioral patterns.
    The truth is always important. Even if 90% of the world would disagree with me and say that not only are there souls but there are gods which control where these souls go when you die. (or the energy just LIVES ON) Whatever a soul does in your book. You said earlier "Do I believe I have a soul? Yes I do."

    But as I asked in the original post... If you believe so.. WHY do you believe so? Do you have any proof? I'm saying this is exactly the same thing as believing in god. You believe without proof EVEN with the absence of a threat/clause of you going to hell due to your disbelief.

    Where I understand someone who has been programmed to believe in god will believe and follow their god. Hell, they believe they will burn for all eternity if they don't. I don't understand why someone would believe in a soul. UNLESS it is due to fears of living on in some form.

    Ask yourself this. Does the thought of there possibly being absolutely nothing after death scare you in at all?

  2. #62
    Member metasapiens's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VYCanisMajoris View Post
    WHY do you believe so? Do you have any proof?
    It's basically antinomic.

  3. #63
    Member VYCanisMajoris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by metasapiens View Post
    It's basically antinomic.
    OK.. Antinomic is my word of the day. I looked it up and still don`t see how it answers the question.

  4. #64
    Member metasapiens's Avatar
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    It answers to the 2nd question, we believe when we have to (oh weakness) jump to conclusions without irrefutable proofs. If he has any, then it's knowledge (or science).

  5. #65
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VYCanisMajoris View Post
    So, you don't know? I'm pretty certain we're all the same.

    Ask yourself this. Wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that AFTER you died things went back to the way they were BEFORE you were born. For me that means absolute nothingness. I don't remember feeling, thinking, seeing or sensing in any way shape or form before I was born.

    That's exactly what I believe happens when we die.

    In my estimation this idea of a soul is something that's been programmed into your thinking from outside sources. You maintain this thinking for one of three reasons :

    A.Because it's just easier to go along with what everyone tells you.
    B.Because it makes you cope with the idea of death better.
    C.Because you don't want people to think of you as "soulless"


    I may sound harsh but I think its important we all understand the world around us and are realistic about the beliefs which govern our thinking. You might say: oh well whether or not I have a soul is of no consequence to how I live my life but I would disagree. Maybe you yourself wouldn't change how you live but if more people were realistic about the world we live in we could learn to not let our ridiculous supernatural beliefs hinder the growth and evolution of our species and technology, our species would be a lot better off.
    Correct: I don't know. I don't know that humans have souls, either, I simply believe it. There is some logic in the assumption that we are all the same, as there is in the assumption that what happens after death is the same as what happens before we were born. I know people, however, who claim to remember times before birth, other lives even. They cannot prove their claims any more than you can prove that you had no existence before birth. One's personal beliefs are no doubt influenced by these personal experiences and perspectives. I try to consider the experiences of people other than myself. To me they are evidence, subjective to be sure, and hardly proof of anything, but information that I will not simply dismiss out of hand.

    The idea of a soul is indeed part of much prevailing cultural and religious programming. So are many other ideas. I recognize this, and have shed the vast majority of such progamming. In fact, I discarded all of it at one time, eventually bringing back, or more accurately reinterpreting for myself, those elements that made sense and resonated with me. This would then be reason D for believing in souls: namely that it makes sense to me based upon my current level of understanding. This belief may evolve as my understanding improves and I experience more of life.

    You are quite right, though, about the detriment of allowing religious beliefs (of any sort) to hinder human progress and technological development. This generally happens when people try to apply religious principles to scientific decisions. It is simply the wrong tool for the job. Both scientific method and spiritual thought have their place, but each addresses different questions. Critical thinking is a common element that both should share, though it is often absent in religion.

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