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  1. #21
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    i think "soul" is some unconscious part(or way of working) of your brains

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eye 'n' Teepee View Post
    Subjective consciousness to me is one of the most intriguing unanswered questions there is. But not having an answer to a question doesn't give license to invent a supernatural concept to explain it. Nobody knows the answer, so speculation is fine but that speculation should not be passed off as the "truth" (i.e. religion).
    Right. The only correct answer is "we don't know". As for religion... truth is not what that's about

    But "we don't know" is just as far from the scientific world view as it is from the religious. To think that in this very physical world, where we're made of quarks or strings or whatever other mechanical particles, where possibly all timelines are realized in the multiverse, there could be an actual chance of our puny "egos" (battered and stomped on by every scientific discovery ever made and broken apart by cognitive science into bits and pieces of agents and unconscious machinery), actually being primal, transcending the "real" world out there, and perhaps even of death eventually actually leading to "something else" is really a trip.

    It's also very frightening. If you think that the I of the jews in the camps, that the I of the women at yodok camp being opened up alive or stoned to death, of witches burned alive in the dark ages, could be the very I that is both writing and reading this... it's very frightening. Better not think about it.

  3. #23
    now! in shell form INA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    i think "soul" is some unconscious part(or way of working) of your brains
    Si. It's all just neurons firing. There's no ghost in the machine.
    hoarding time and space
    A single event can awaken within us a stranger totally unknown to us. To live is to be slowly born.
    — Antoine de Saint-Exupery

  4. #24
    Senior Member Oeufa's Avatar
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    Nope. I once heard a bunch of psychologists having a debate about duality. When I thought about it for myself, I realised it wasn't a concept I believed in. That of course led me to question my religion (my mother is very religious and for some reason I never questioned it until this point), which I then discarded considering religion really centers around the whole idea of having a soul that lives eternally.

    I wouldn't necessarily call myself an athiest though. A lot of athiests I know are even worse than extremist religious fanatics (in that they both push their beliefs on everyone else). Personally, I don't care what other people believe - whatever helps them through life is fine by me. My younger brother for example draws a lot of strength from his faith, which I think is fantastic for him. He deals with a lot of stress so it's something I think he really needs.

    Sorry, got a bit side tracked there :redface: No I don't believe in souls.
    Ti>Ne>Si>Te>Fi>Ni>Se=Fe

    And yes, there are such things as INTPs who overuse emoticons

  5. #25
    Senior Member Misty_Mountain_Rose's Avatar
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    My opinion of the Soul is less about the entity itself, and more about the 'energy' of a person. Science says that no energy can be either created, nor destroyed. That energy 'lives on' somewhere. Now, whether that energy retains properties of what it was previously a part of, I don't know, but I would think that it could be possible.

    I'm more inclined to believe in a form of 'reincarnation' but not in the Buddhist sense. Its more of a 'This energy existed as one thing, and it will exist again as something else, repeatedly, forever'. I don't picture it as a 'ghostly spirit' of a former person just waiting for its time to be returned to human form, nor do I think it has a purpose other than 'to exist'.

    I don't think that 'souls' exist the way that many religions believe, where it will be punished or rewarded according to ones actions. However... I do think that there must be something in us that gives that 'collective consciousness' type of feeling. Perhaps it really is only DNA and Nurture/life experiences at work to create a persons tendencies, personality and 'character'... but even babies have different temperaments right from birth. Something in me tends to lean toward the idea that there is more to who we are than just our experiences, but of course there is no proof.

    I chalk it up to the 'energy' that recycles time and time again. In this sense, I believe I have lived many past lives, and will live many future lives in the way that I will disintegrate one day, become the soil or water that sustains the creatures that I am then a part of, that feeds the humans that I become a part of who eventually disintegrate... etc, etc.
    Embrace the possibilities.

  6. #26
    Member VYCanisMajoris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Misty_Mountain_Rose View Post
    My opinion of the Soul is less about the entity itself, and more about the 'energy' of a person. Science says that no energy can be either created, nor destroyed. That energy 'lives on' somewhere. Now, whether that energy retains properties of what it was previously a part of, I don't know, but I would think that it could be possible.

    I'm more inclined to believe in a form of 'reincarnation' but not in the Buddhist sense. Its more of a 'This energy existed as one thing, and it will exist again as something else, repeatedly, forever'. I don't picture it as a 'ghostly spirit' of a former person just waiting for its time to be returned to human form, nor do I think it has a purpose other than 'to exist'.

    I don't think that 'souls' exist the way that many religions believe, where it will be punished or rewarded according to ones actions. However... I do think that there must be something in us that gives that 'collective consciousness' type of feeling. Perhaps it really is only DNA and Nurture/life experiences at work to create a persons tendencies, personality and 'character'... but even babies have different temperaments right from birth. Something in me tends to lean toward the idea that there is more to who we are than just our experiences, but of course there is no proof.

    I chalk it up to the 'energy' that recycles time and time again. In this sense, I believe I have lived many past lives, and will live many future lives in the way that I will disintegrate one day, become the soil or water that sustains the creatures that I am then a part of, that feeds the humans that I become a part of who eventually disintegrate... etc, etc.
    Ahh, the ol' energy never dies excuse....To me it's something some spiritualist read while skimming a physics book and heralded it as his own personal way to still believe in some sort of safe haven after death.

    I think we all can agree that our death and bodies will feed other life. I personally do not want to be buried in a casket for this reason. I think that is very different than actually "living on", however. Do you think you will remember anything from this life?

    I personally believe that our lives here on Earth, the lives of Earthlings in general, would be greatly enriched based on an awakened state of realization if we just let our primitive beliefs go entirely and realized that we are just another animal on this planet. We would treat other animals better. We would be more open-minded to growth and science. We would take accountability for our actions on the planet and perhaps see true value in finding sustainable energy sources and we would embrace reasons to be GOOD without any threat of some sort of eternal damnation.

  7. #27
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    I don't honestly BELIEVE in such a thing as a soul, but I sure hope my "soul" lives on after my body dies. I hope that I will just become some disembodied "senses", so that I can experience the universe without any limitations. Kinda like dr. manhattan, except I won't really be there.

  8. #28
    No Cigar Litvyak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VYCanisMajoris View Post
    I am talking about the SOUL as in something that can exist without your body.
    No, not by this definition. I haven't decided about concepts like the existence of a possible global consciousness though.
    I find it more possible than the standalone soul of the individual.

  9. #29
    "Everything in its place" fill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VYCanisMajoris View Post
    FSM!!! Where art thou?

    Fil, I think that analogy is off a bit because your belief in your dreams directly affects the outcome. So it is healthy to make yourself believe positively. Whether Stevo believes in a soul or not doesn't affect the outcome and therefore there is no reason to think positively about it. Just realistically.

    That said... do you believe in a FSM?
    My analogy was a off, yes. I tend not to believe in certain things if I'm not certain– I may believe there is a strong case for it, but not in the thing itself. That said, yes, I do believe in an FSM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevo View Post
    Because I have better things to do with my time than worry about whether I have a soul or not. Saying there's no evidence "for or against" means there is no evidence, period. In my mind, that means that a belief in the proposition is not justified and therefore "No" is the appropriate answer until evidence does arrive. If I happen to be wrong, I will graciously accept that fact and change my beliefs accordingly. If I'm right, then I was justified in withholding my belief.
    Good answer.

    This is not comparable to the discussion of whether or not souls exist. My non-belief in the existence of a soul does not create a self-fulfilling prophecy, unless you accept some silly form of physical relativism in which for those who believe in souls, souls exist, and for those who don't, there are no souls.

    That aside, believing in my own goals and aspirations actually has an effect on my actions and my future state of being, as you have demonstrated. I find that the proposition of a soul is ultimately entirely meaningless to me. It makes absolutely no difference to me whether my soul exists or not. Learning that there are in fact souls that persist in us after death would do nothing to change how I think or behave.
    Again, good answer.
    "Poor bastard. Wait 'till he sees the bats. "
    enneagram - 7/5/3

  10. #30
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    Yes, I believe in God and souls. Instinct, yes, but the real thing that causes us to believe
    that some decisions are not right is the soul.

    ENTJ

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