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  1. #61
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    ^ I believe you're reading way too much into this Jennifer. I only expressed an alternative viewpoint, nothing more, and I do think some of the responses in thread were either off base or unduly harsh.

    Posting an illogical and unshaped emo dump in the NT section is not likely to yield the same response as posted in the NF section, that's all.

    You point out valid flaws in the ideas and the logic; I am more interested in examining the emotion here, and thus feel less compelled to jump all over the former.

    (Edit: Plus, there's an assumption that this individual has accurately self-typed, which may not be the case.)
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  2. #62
    Superwoman Red Herring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Agreed.

    But I'm just going to have us put our cards on the table: It's pretty clear you're in here to steer this whole thread in a different direction and give a "guiding hand" because you seemingly don't like how the NTs have handled things, you're doing that typical "NF" thing without really just coming out and stating your intentions... and I think your approach will not be effective at this juncture and probably even counter-productive.

    I do agree that, in the end, it's not a bunch of faceless names on an online forum who will provide mentorship, it's going to be real-life guides. It just doesn't sound like he has any he respects IRL right now.
    ...if by "handling" you mean bashing his brains out for being messy and incoherent

    It seems to me this is somebody facing a moment of disorientation in his life. A forum like this, much less the NT section, might be a bad place to look for emotional guidance, but stop being so hard on him!

    ocean, there is nothing wrong with feeling a little out of place or developing your personality ,and it is laudable that, as you stated in your intro in the welcome thread, are developing more tolerance and empathy and are trying to ditch some of that intellectual arrogance that often goes with a certain sensitivity of the mind. Now act on it! You keep calling people stupid sheep and make assumptions about what goes on in their head.

    A blog might not be a bad idea. As a borderline T/F I´d like to read more about your journey in a more appropriate place.
    The good life is one inspired by love and guided by knowledge. Neither love without knowledge, nor knowledge without love can produce a good life. - Bertrand Russell
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  3. #63
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Honestly.... you guys.
    He doesn't want to be coddled.
    That was my point.
    He wants to bitch.

    I personally have a pet peeve about people coddling those who need a different approach, I find it offensive and counter-productive... hence my reaction.

    But if you'd like to coddle and mother him and protect him from the ramifications of the behavior he has chosen as a free-acting adult, feel free to indulge.
    I won't stand in your way any longer.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #64
    Superwoman Red Herring's Avatar
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    I have no intention of coddling him. Just that from the vibes I was getting from ocean, he seems more interested in venting his confusion and teenage style anger at the world and perhaps getting some perpective on it all than he is in seriously discussing questions of ethics or psychology.
    The good life is one inspired by love and guided by knowledge. Neither love without knowledge, nor knowledge without love can produce a good life. - Bertrand Russell
    A herring's blog
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  5. #65
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    he seems more interested in venting his confusion and teenage style anger at the world and perhaps getting some perpective on it all
    He's 33.

    If there was any shot of worthwhile perspective, it would have shown up by now.

  6. #66
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    He's 33.

    If there was any shot of worthwhile perspective, it would have shown up by now.
    woah really???? i mean i'm immature, but damn seriously?

  7. #67
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    But if you'd like to coddle and mother him and protect him from the ramifications of the behavior he has chosen as a free-acting adult, feel free to indulge.

    I won't stand in your way any longer.
    OK, he does not want to be coddled.

    Therefore you must allow me to be the one to concede to your technique:



    Far be it from me to presume I have anything worthwhile to add whilst participating in the NT Secshun anyway.

    Who knows what way will work best? Both have their virtues and pitfalls. I do feel somewhat offended though to have my approach interpreted in the manner you have chosen - to me it's hardly coddling, and can be rather harsh. But to each their own.

    -----

    ocean, I have read some more of your posts. It seems you are in a bit of a tug-of-war with yourself. You desire to cultivate this emotional side of your personality, but historically you have prided yourself on not "needing" emotions and have resided instead above other people on a fictional plateau of superior intellect. I sense that you think you are better than and smarter than most everyone around you.

    Your rejection of "feelings", seeing them as the foolish, irrational side of you has caused you to (illogically) associate most "weakness" with F and this is your downfall, despite your attempts now to cultivate this side of your personality. Your acknowledgement of the need to do so is laudable however and I commend you on beginning the journey.

    I will tell you though that many of your posts still smack of a superiority you believe you possess, and rather than expressly looking at developing emotions, you will benefit from coupling that with a healthy dose of humility. You are at an age now where this is more and more possible.

    I wish you success. You are interesting, an NT willing to be illogical for the sake of a emotional rant.

    Either that, or you are not as brilliant as you think you are.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  8. #68
    Superwoman Red Herring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post

    ocean, I have read some more of your posts. It seems you are in a bit of a tug-of-war with yourself. You desire to cultivate this emotional side of your personality, but historically you have prided yourself on not "needing" emotions and have resided instead above other people on a fictional plateau of superior intellect. I sense that you think you are better than and smarter than most everyone around you.

    Your rejection of "feelings", seeing them as the foolish, irrational side of you has caused you to (illogically) associate most "weakness" with F and this is your downfall, despite your attempts now to cultivate this side of your personality. Your acknowledgement of the need to do so is laudable however and I commend you on beginning the journey.

    I will tell you though that many of your posts still smack of a superiority you believe you possess, and rather than expressly looking at developing emotions, you will benefit from coupling that with a healthy dose of humility. You are at an age now where this is more and more possible.

    I wish you success. You are interesting, an NT willing to be illogical for the sake of a emotional rant.

    Either that, or you are not as brilliant as you think you are.
    Amen to that (no pun intended)!
    The good life is one inspired by love and guided by knowledge. Neither love without knowledge, nor knowledge without love can produce a good life. - Bertrand Russell
    A herring's blog
    Johari / Nohari

  9. #69
    Senior Member Misty_Mountain_Rose's Avatar
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    This is maybe the third or fourth thread of his(?) that I've read, and each one makes me have to bite down on my tongue... hard.

    Ocean, this is directly for you:

    If you are indeed 33, and indeed an NT, I can see how it might be possible (not likely in this extreme... but I'm willing to acknowledge anomalies) for you to have reached a critical turning point in your life at this age, especially if you have never spent much time on self-development.

    Having said that and assuming you aren't lying about your age...

    I admire your 'spunk' and fearless 'put it all out there' attitude, but I don't think your intention is to get real feedback to your questions. It feels more like trying to provoke reactions out of others. That, to me, seems to deny that you really are 33 years old, but assuming a person can reach adulthood and still not have the slightest idea of how to work productively toward your goals of self understanding, I offer some advise. I'm no expert, so take it with a grain of salt.

    When you are upset about something, ask yourself WHY. When you get your answer, ask yourself WHY you feel that way, and WHY you feel THAT way, and so on and so forth until you reach the murky bottom. Be honest with yourself. If you aren't, you will not progress.

    Example:

    Why am I upset that all those people just stood there and watched someone who was clearly in pain?

    Because it seems uncaring and selfish!

    Why am I upset about them being uncaring and selfish?

    ... Well... because SOMEBODY had to do SOMETHING! How can they treat another person that way? Are they inhuman?

    But why am I SO upset about this one incident? Have I seen this kind of uncaring and selfish behavior before in my own life where someone acted that way to me...?

    ... Yeah, come to think of it so and so did XYZ and I don't understand it

    What can I do about what so and so did or didn't do?

    Probably nothing, but I can at least learn from it... try not to act that way or try to inspire others not to act that way.

    How do you go about reminding yourself to act that way or inspire others?

    [insert idea here]


    By asking yourself WHY and truly trying to understand your reactions to things, you will find things out about yourself that you may have subconsciously known, but didn't realize they were affecting you this way.

    It is a difficult road, but I think that you will find it much more productive than some of the posts I've seen you put out here. You're looking for validation of your feelings and ideals, and as long as YOU aren't sure where they're coming from, they're going to be confused, incoherent and antagonistic. You are the ONLY person who needs to be truly OK with your opinions, but you should probably take the time to understand how you feel about them yourself before putting them to others for analysis.

    I too recommend starting a blog to put these posts in so that you have your own sounding board rather than putting them in the main forums.

    Good luck in your quest for self understanding.
    Embrace the possibilities.

  10. #70
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    Jeezus, so many replies, so little time...

    I didn't know NTs were forbidden from having emotional rants. If I'm to be considered special for this then fine. I'm special! Yay.

    Contemplative. Basically what I see here is that everyone read into my post what they wanted, ranging from their feeling that I violated social norm, to their resentment for my perceived fictional feeling of superiority, to some compliments for being a unique NT, and lots more interesting stuff. I'll come back and read it all sometimes.

    NTs seem to have had lots of fun pointing out all possible flaws in what I've said AS IF that was assembly source code. Damn I used to do this too... I felt smart at the time

    Consider it poetry... it triggered emotions... everyone saw something different in it... it's GOOD poetry. If you want to flame me for posting on NT instead of NF fine - I just thought I'd throw the match where the gasoline's at

    And consider it a detective story. This is the part where the detective walks into a bar and starts calling people names just to figure out who the bad guys are and who's got something to hide. It's called mapping the landscape, and stirring s**t up. I'm sure Powerful Optimization Processes as described in Creating Friendly AI would do this at times.

    I can say I am now in my comfort zone with regards to the bandwidth and diversity of the input I have received. I was seriously starting to get bored prior to this. Now data is flowing. I like it

    Peace to all! Peace is the prime directive.

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