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  1. #11
    morose bourgeoisie
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    I am becoming an ENTJ?

    Why? Are you growing horns? Bwahaha!

  2. #12
    Geolectric teslashock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mondo View Post
    I'm of the belief that someone can never change his or her personality type.
    You were probably an ENTP during childhood and just didn't know it.
    ENTP's can be power-hungry and effective managers too.
    From what you've said, I think you're an ENTP and not an ENTJ.
    Yes, those who think you can "change" personality types do not really understand what these types are attempting to describe. Barring some hugely significant, perhaps catastrophic, life-changing event, we don't just change our style of cognition. (Though I/E may be more subject to change, but that's another issue for another time.)

    Quote Originally Posted by cless986 View Post
    Then it happened, my father wanted me to start learning about our family business, because he wants to leave it to me to run it later.
    Seriously? an entp? managing a big business? with lot of employees and lots of responsability??? no way.
    But then I started to learn, yeah, I am an adult now, is better than find a job... at least I was the boss son .
    It was 2 years ago... in the beggining it was very boring, always scolded because of my disorganized ways of doing things, forgetting things, procrastinate, bla bla bla, but guess what? I learned a lot from my mistakes, then I started to be more organized and hardworking for the praise of my parents, I... really want to make them proud of me.
    Because of that I started to read a lot of books about how to manage people and influence others, and then.... I fell in LOVE with the POWER now, I like to take decisions, manage people, improve and be efficient, more hardworking, etc lot of entj traits...

    what do you think? Did I became an mature entp or became another entj?
    Two people of different types can reach the same behavioral and philosophical conclusions. Just because you love power and have developed a knack for efficiency, organization, and working diligently does not mean that you went from P to J. I'm of the belief that P/J is the least likely letter to change, even if there were some strange event that lead to a change in cognition style. A change from P to J means that all of your functions change, and even your letter order changes.

    ENTP = Ne Ti Fe Si
    ENTJ = Te Ni Se Fi

    There is absolutely nothing similar about this function/order between ENTJ and ENTP. The key to understanding your type is not what you do, but why you do what you do. This gets preached a lot around this forum, but considering that you are a new member, I'll cut you some slack for your apparent lack of understanding on the issue.

    So the key question here is not "Are you organized, efficient, and a diligent leader?" but rather "Why do you value organization and efficiency and the ability to be a diligent leader?"

    I don't really know much about you, but you certainly sound more ENTP than ENTJ, in the brief encounter I've come across in the OP. A particular skill of ENTPs is their ability to adapt to a wide range of environments/ideas which comes with dominant Ne. Another particular skill is the ability to understand the intricacies of a system, which comes with secondary Ti.

    You appear to have spent a prolonged period of time observing and analyzing the kind of personal style that is necessary to be a leader. You have studied it and made mental sense of it, and you seem to have developed a master knowledge of what leadership takes. Thus, you have picked up on the types of variables that go into being a leader, organized, structured, and efficient, and you have adapted your behavior/values in a way that has helped you master this particular style.

    ENTJs are much more likely to just naturally thrive off of structuring their outer world in order to accomplish some goal. Dominant Te cannot be shut off; it is not a matter of them saying "I want to be organized now." They typically just default to taking the steps required to make their environment more organized and efficient, without really consciously putting forth effort.

    You have merely accepted fault. Originally Ne/Ti said that organization is a waste of time and not fun at all, but after dabbling a bit, you have learned enough from your external world that organization and leadership are passions of yours and can get you somewhere useful, so you've put effort into studying these things.

    When you say you think you're ENTJ because you've become more organized, more of a hard-worker, and a better leader, you are doing the same thing that a lot of people around here do, and that's forming [faulty] behavioral stereotypes with the different personality types. To make a long story short, everyone who thrives on power, leadership, and efficiency is not an ENTJ.

  3. #13
    Probably Most Brilliant Craft's Avatar
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    ^ Yes

    Typology was based on the premise of unchangeable type Goddamnit.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by teslashock View Post
    Yes, those who think you can "change" personality types do not really understand what these types are attempting to describe. Barring some hugely significant, perhaps catastrophic, life-changing event, we don't just change our style of cognition. (Though I/E may be more subject to change, but that's another issue for another time.)



    Two people of different types can reach the same behavioral and philosophical conclusions. Just because you love power and have developed a knack for efficiency, organization, and working diligently does not mean that you went from P to J. I'm of the belief that P/J is the least likely letter to change, even if there were some strange event that lead to a change in cognition style. A change from P to J means that all of your functions change, and even your letter order changes.

    ENTP = Ne Ti Fe Si
    ENTJ = Te Ni Se Fi

    There is absolutely nothing similar about this function/order between ENTJ and ENTP. The key to understanding your type is not what you do, but why you do what you do. This gets preached a lot around this forum, but considering that you are a new member, I'll cut you some slack for your apparent lack of understanding on the issue.

    So the key question here is not "Are you organized, efficient, and a diligent leader?" but rather "Why do you value organization and efficiency and the ability to be a diligent leader?"

    I don't really know much about you, but you certainly sound more ENTP than ENTJ, in the brief encounter I've come across in the OP. A particular skill of ENTPs is their ability to adapt to a wide range of environments/ideas which comes with dominant Ne. Another particular skill is the ability to understand the intricacies of a system, which comes with secondary Ti.

    You appear to have spent a prolonged period of time observing and analyzing the kind of personal style that is necessary to be a leader. You have studied it and made mental sense of it, and you seem to have developed a master knowledge of what leadership takes. Thus, you have picked up on the types of variables that go into being a leader, organized, structured, and efficient, and you have adapted your behavior/values in a way that has helped you master this particular style.

    ENTJs are much more likely to just naturally thrive off of structuring their outer world in order to accomplish some goal. Dominant Te cannot be shut off; it is not a matter of them saying "I want to be organized now." They typically just default to taking the steps required to make their environment more organized and efficient, without really consciously putting forth effort.

    You have merely accepted fault. Originally Ne/Ti said that organization is a waste of time and not fun at all, but after dabbling a bit, you have learned enough from your external world that organization and leadership are passions of yours and can get you somewhere useful, so you've put effort into studying these things.

    When you say you think you're ENTJ because you've become more organized, more of a hard-worker, and a better leader, you are doing the same thing that a lot of people around here do, and that's forming [faulty] behavioral stereotypes with the different personality types. To make a long story short, everyone who thrives on power, leadership, and efficiency is not an ENTJ.
    amazing!!! That was very helpful, thanks! My father is an ENTJ, by the way.
    Not the greatest dad ever, hahaha, and always scold me and make me be like him.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by teslashock View Post
    Yes, those who think you can "change" personality types do not really understand what these types are attempting to describe. Barring some hugely significant, perhaps catastrophic, life-changing event, we don't just change our style of cognition. (Though I/E may be more subject to change, but that's another issue for another time.)



    Two people of different types can reach the same behavioral and philosophical conclusions. Just because you love power and have developed a knack for efficiency, organization, and working diligently does not mean that you went from P to J. I'm of the belief that P/J is the least likely letter to change, even if there were some strange event that lead to a change in cognition style. A change from P to J means that all of your functions change, and even your letter order changes.

    ENTP = Ne Ti Fe Si
    ENTJ = Te Ni Se Fi

    There is absolutely nothing similar about this function/order between ENTJ and ENTP. The key to understanding your type is not what you do, but why you do what you do. This gets preached a lot around this forum, but considering that you are a new member, I'll cut you some slack for your apparent lack of understanding on the issue.

    So the key question here is not "Are you organized, efficient, and a diligent leader?" but rather "Why do you value organization and efficiency and the ability to be a diligent leader?"

    I don't really know much about you, but you certainly sound more ENTP than ENTJ, in the brief encounter I've come across in the OP. A particular skill of ENTPs is their ability to adapt to a wide range of environments/ideas which comes with dominant Ne. Another particular skill is the ability to understand the intricacies of a system, which comes with secondary Ti.

    You appear to have spent a prolonged period of time observing and analyzing the kind of personal style that is necessary to be a leader. You have studied it and made mental sense of it, and you seem to have developed a master knowledge of what leadership takes. Thus, you have picked up on the types of variables that go into being a leader, organized, structured, and efficient, and you have adapted your behavior/values in a way that has helped you master this particular style.

    ENTJs are much more likely to just naturally thrive off of structuring their outer world in order to accomplish some goal. Dominant Te cannot be shut off; it is not a matter of them saying "I want to be organized now." They typically just default to taking the steps required to make their environment more organized and efficient, without really consciously putting forth effort.

    You have merely accepted fault. Originally Ne/Ti said that organization is a waste of time and not fun at all, but after dabbling a bit, you have learned enough from your external world that organization and leadership are passions of yours and can get you somewhere useful, so you've put effort into studying these things.

    When you say you think you're ENTJ because you've become more organized, more of a hard-worker, and a better leader, you are doing the same thing that a lot of people around here do, and that's forming [faulty] behavioral stereotypes with the different personality types. To make a long story short, everyone who thrives on power, leadership, and efficiency is not an ENTJ.
    I read most of this and am compelled to stand beside you in support. You also helped me settle my long decision between J/P that I had been going through (If you remember) with the sentiment you gave about adaptation. And with that I applaud you.

  6. #16
    "Everything in its place" fill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cless986 View Post
    It was 2 years ago... in the beggining it was very boring, always scolded because of my disorganized ways of doing things, forgetting things, procrastinate [...] now, I like to take decisions, manage people, improve and be efficient, more hardworking, etc lot of entj traits...
    I took a Myers-Briggs test at work, and my boss told us that he would score ENTP outside of work and ENTJ when at work. Maybe Ps can hit a "J" switch on their back and begin taking control of the situation they lie in.
    "Poor bastard. Wait 'till he sees the bats. "
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  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by fill View Post
    I took a Myers-Briggs test at work, and my boss told us that he would score ENTP outside of work and ENTJ when at work. Maybe Ps can hit a "J" switch on their back and begin taking control of the situation they lie in.
    I can do this, but dislike (most of the time) doing it. It goes against what I've told others how I believe.

  8. #18
    Senior Member MoneyTick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by teslashock View Post
    Yes, those who think you can "change" personality types do not really understand what these types are attempting to describe. Barring some hugely significant, perhaps catastrophic, life-changing event, we don't just change our style of cognition. (Though I/E may be more subject to change, but that's another issue for another time.)



    Two people of different types can reach the same behavioral and philosophical conclusions. Just because you love power and have developed a knack for efficiency, organization, and working diligently does not mean that you went from P to J. I'm of the belief that P/J is the least likely letter to change, even if there were some strange event that lead to a change in cognition style. A change from P to J means that all of your functions change, and even your letter order changes.

    ENTP = Ne Ti Fe Si
    ENTJ = Te Ni Se Fi

    There is absolutely nothing similar about this function/order between ENTJ and ENTP. The key to understanding your type is not what you do, but why you do what you do. This gets preached a lot around this forum, but considering that you are a new member, I'll cut you some slack for your apparent lack of understanding on the issue.

    So the key question here is not "Are you organized, efficient, and a diligent leader?" but rather "Why do you value organization and efficiency and the ability to be a diligent leader?"

    I don't really know much about you, but you certainly sound more ENTP than ENTJ, in the brief encounter I've come across in the OP. A particular skill of ENTPs is their ability to adapt to a wide range of environments/ideas which comes with dominant Ne. Another particular skill is the ability to understand the intricacies of a system, which comes with secondary Ti.

    You appear to have spent a prolonged period of time observing and analyzing the kind of personal style that is necessary to be a leader. You have studied it and made mental sense of it, and you seem to have developed a master knowledge of what leadership takes. Thus, you have picked up on the types of variables that go into being a leader, organized, structured, and efficient, and you have adapted your behavior/values in a way that has helped you master this particular style.

    ENTJs are much more likely to just naturally thrive off of structuring their outer world in order to accomplish some goal. Dominant Te cannot be shut off; it is not a matter of them saying "I want to be organized now." They typically just default to taking the steps required to make their environment more organized and efficient, without really consciously putting forth effort.

    You have merely accepted fault. Originally Ne/Ti said that organization is a waste of time and not fun at all, but after dabbling a bit, you have learned enough from your external world that organization and leadership are passions of yours and can get you somewhere useful, so you've put effort into studying these things.

    When you say you think you're ENTJ because you've become more organized, more of a hard-worker, and a better leader, you are doing the same thing that a lot of people around here do, and that's forming [faulty] behavioral stereotypes with the different personality types. To make a long story short, everyone who thrives on power, leadership, and efficiency is not an ENTJ.
    Oh man, you stole the words right off me. On a good note, thanks for putting in the hard effort into articulately explaining the situation.

    To make a long story short, everyone who thrives on power, leadership, and efficiency is not an ENTJ.
    This is so true about me, but yet so ironic - that I cant break it down any further to explain it.

    ENTJ's don't CRAVE for power, leadership and efficiency. I could care less about being the top leader of some organization, and politically - if I was elected for mayor forget it, I would resign. Why?

    Because what would such specific power and leadership bring of benefit to me? Just power and leadership? No thanks!

    I don't know about other ENTJs, and I'm hoping I can get some feedback from others ---- But this is my life from the big picture:

    Everything I do in my life is based out of a "mental picture" of who and where I want to be in the future. I'm talking about the long-range future, 10-20 years out.

    It's hard to comprehend, but I create "forlorn memories" in my mind of where I'd be specifically in the future. They're sort of like de ja vous but in the future, impending state of beings that feel familiar to me yet they never occured.

    For example, I used to daydream in school when I was a kid of running my own business and traveling the world. I always had a "background" mental image of myself having a cup of coffee at the JFK airport terminal, then boarding a plane on my way to Europe for an "adventurous" vacation. I created this mental image out of thin air, and the excitement I got out of just thinking it was amazing.

    That background mental imagery was a supernatural and infinite source of motivation for me to become successful. Thinking back, I've fulfilled that same mental aspiration last summer when I went on a two week tour of Amsterdam and Paris. I've also started my own business, Alternative Smoking Technologies LLC, retailing electronic cigarettes online. I hate bragging, and I wouldn't say I've hit the jackpot and have it made - but I surprised at how the industry is booming in wake of this epic economical catastrophe. Probably because the expense of traditional cigarettes are forcing people to seek other innovative approaches to relinquish their habit. One of my sites is thevapormall.com, I have a few others coming up soon.

    This venture has given me an amazing sense of confidence and freedom, the same sensation I longed for when I was a kid in school staring out the window and clock. Now I have other mental pictures, and everything I do is founded out of my "life's greater aspirations" not for the sake of merely accomplishing something.

    THEN, the leadership, efficiency protocols, and drive to move forward falls into place naturally. My employees (primarily in the marketing sector) are overwhelmed with the tasks and duties I place upon them, and they often complain that they are greater than this world, labeling them as "impossible." But for some reason, everyone is stunned and almost looks at me like I'm literally a psycho wizard - because the impossible gets accomplished -- beyond expectation, and they can't understand why other that they've heeded my guidance and direction.

    So all in all, if you were an ENTJ - you would have most likely retired your father and taken 100% control of his business at the age of 18. Or you would have said "NO" to you father's request, and went out to pursue your own venture.

    "freedom" and "lifestyle" are the ENTJ's broadest foundation & motive that drives all of their directives. The "power" and all the other good stuff falls in place to the foundations of the aforementioned maxim naturally, not by choice.

  9. #19
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Hmm.. You sure you aren't a sociable INTJ? All that sounds like Ni is your guiding star whereas Te is an assist tool. That is, Ni-Te, as opposed to Te-Ni.

    @ OP: Personally I don't agree with the idea that people can't change type -- type after all is a symbol for a set of traits associated to cognition, rather than anything tangible -- but I do pretty much agree with the rest of what Teslashock said. If your emergent thirst for power and organization arose from having logically figured out the ins and outs of it and then settled into it, then that would be Ti + Si interplay rather than Te. Much in the same way, I often use Te + Si in a way that often gets mistaken for Ti.
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  10. #20
    Senior Member MoneyTick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    Hmm.. You sure you aren't a sociable INTJ? All that sounds like Ni is your guiding star whereas Te is an assist tool. That is, Ni-Te, as opposed to Te-Ni.
    Definitely not. I think I emphasized my Ni a little too much in my last post but I'll quote from my own narrative:

    "That background mental imagery was a supernatural and infinite source of motivation for me to become successful." - Referring to my Ni

    But after the countless times I've taken the MBTI test I've always struck ENTJ with the highest (around 90%) being the Te or extroverted thinking. I cannot see building my life and having the basis for all of my directives and decisions founded on mere mental imagery, but rather it's the underlying motivation.

    Without the ability to have a strong flair for logical contingency planning, keeping a semi-engraved daily schedule, and keeping continuous watch on how things are progressing - I would probably be still in school daydreaming and staring out the window.

    Another thing about me is that even though I establish a strong agenda and plan of action - I am somehow dependent on others' feedback of the subject matter. Although I feel that a plan or strategy I've devised is 100% concrete and fool/recession-proof -- I always have a knack for "cross checking" and making myself 101% sure its flawless by listening to others' feedback. Im usually extremely interested in what others have to say about whatever it is I'm about to implement, but most of the time I get the typical "It's great" or "Yeah, good plan" sort of response which has no real value for me.

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