[NT] Do NTs have less testosterone?

[Red Herring]

Have you heard of the extreme male brain theory (Simon Baron-Cohen)?

 

[Moiety]

Well if NTs have less testosterone what of the NF males?

I think it's all kind of bogus. Testoterone can influence your psyche but the correlation, if any, is minimal.

 

[Salomé]

Humorously enough, in the last new pop personality system we discussed here -- the one that attached one of four archetypes to one of four biochemicals (dopamine, testosterone, estrogen, and I think serotonin) -- the Director type correlates most to NT and is the one attached to testosterone.

I've been accused of having more....

Me too.

Me three.

Have you heard of the extreme male brain theory (Simon Baron-Cohen)?

Yes. My tentative theory is that NTs were exposed to more testosterone in the womb when the basic brain pattern was laid down (this is fairly easy to gage with 2d:4d ratio). This "masculinization" predisposes them to autistic spectrum disorders (according to Baron-Cohen). INTs are over-represented when it comes to ASDs.

The amount of testosterone circulating in the blood in adulthood is different from prenatal levels, which are under the influence of the mother.

There does seem to be this odd discrepancy whereby male NTs are often less typically masculine and female NTs more so. I can think of a few reasons for that (both biochemical and sociological) but it would be pure speculation.

 

[Speed Gavroche]

I guess yes.

I was quite borderline ISTP/INTP until pubertia. But the more I gained testosterone, the more I became S. I think that xNTJ have more testrosterone than xNTP though. The first want to conquer te world to submit every member of the opposite sex, the second prefer arguing than sex.

But do NT females have less progesteron?

 

[Tallulah]

There does seem to be this odd discrepancy whereby male NTs are often less typically masculine and female NTs more so. I can think of a few reasons for that (both biochemical and sociological) but it would be pure speculation.

Personally, I think it's because we don't see the logic in carrying on traditional roles and behaviors when there's no point to it. If something needs doing, the best person for the job does it. And we are far less likely to give a crap about what people think about us. One of the things I'm loving about dating an INTP is that he flat-out Does. Not. Care. what people think about him (but is still considerate of me).

As to the OP, I don't think NTs have less testosterone. But I think they aren't very likely to let their lives be ruled by it.

 

[onemoretime]

Have you heard of the extreme male brain theory (Simon Baron-Cohen)?

This is closer to what's going on, I think. In my estimation, some people are more sensitive to the neurological effects of testosterone, while others are more sensitive to the somatic effects of testosterone. However, outside of the womb, where testosterone comes from the mother, the body ends up producing the majority of its testosterone through responses to somatic stimuli (for example, the microtrauma that causes muscular hypertrophy).

 

[angell_m]

My father had a full beard when he was 18. I'm in my mid twenties and I still can't grow a full beard. But it's common these days. At least in Norway it is. The ones that can grow a full beard as young adult are in the tiny box, the rest of us who still look like we're fifteen at the age of 25 are in the big box. When I'm 40 I'm gonna look like I'm 25, so I'm probably gonna date 18 year olds, teheh.

 

[mrcockburn]

Just an another entp crazy thought... Maybe because we born with less testosterone than others, we all had a childhood with a lack of interest and energy in sports, and prefering to stay reading, daydreaming, thinking, solitary stuff, etc... and grew and develop a personality that favours thinking over doing, mind over body (at least in my case)
dont get me wrong, I enjoy playing basketball, swimming, pingpong, once in a while, but I prefer staying indoors and stimulate my mind
But I always wanted to try skydiving

Do the finger test: If your ring finger is longer than the index finger, you have enough/too much testosterone.

Seriously though, I'm NT to a fault, and I prefer physical outdoor activities. And do try skydiving!! It's an expensive addiction. Your wallet will hate me for suggesting it!

 

[Amethyst]

Type doesn't necessarily affect one's hormone levels.

 

[Antimony]

I have enough/too much testosterone...and my body hates it!

Could having more testosterone affect being T?

 

[mrcockburn]

Maybe it's just Se-deficient types this happens to? SJs and NPs?

No. I know many ESTJs with male pattern baldness. This is an indication of too much androgen.

 

[mmhmm]

My father had a full beard when he was 18. I'm in my mid twenties and I still can't grow a full beard. But it's common these days. At least in Norway it is. The ones that can grow a full beard as young adult are in the tiny box, the rest of us who still look like we're fifteen at the age of 25 are in the big box. When I'm 40 I'm gonna look like I'm 25, so I'm probably gonna date 18 year olds, teheh.

that's funny. i tend to think it's a genes thing.
i've got asian genes, so despite being much older,
i look like i'm 15. i dated a 37 year old and
i'm sure people looked at us as if he was the
dirty old man and i was his young toy.

it makes me happy when they still card me.

 

[Halfjillhalfjack]

Me three.


Yes. My tentative theory is that NTs were exposed to more testosterone in the womb when the basic brain pattern was laid down (this is fairly easy to gage with 2d:4d ratio). This "masculinization" predisposes them to autistic spectrum disorders (according to Baron-Cohen). INTs are over-represented when it comes to ASDs.

The amount of testosterone circulating in the blood in adulthood is different from prenatal levels, which are under the influence of the mother.

There does seem to be this odd discrepancy whereby male NTs are often less typically masculine and female NTs more so. I can think of a few reasons for that (both biochemical and sociological) but it would be pure speculation.

this is in line with what I read about Helen Fisher's pseudo-scientific personality theory (NT - Directors + high levels of testosterone, NF - Negotiators and high levels of estrogen, SJ - Builder and high levels of serotonin, and SP - Explorer and high levels of dopamine)..... Even though Fisher's idea of linking personality to one dominant brain chemical seems ridiculously limited from my perspective, I think she only referred to NTs (directors) being exposed to high-levels of testosterone in the womb only, resulting in a ring-finger which is longer than the index-finger......

Morgan, I like your theory. Because it could mean that the OPs question could both be yes and no - yes, possibly NTs are exposed to more testosterone in the womb, but, possibly not necessarily during puberty.....
however....I don't know....... Ah, I also remember that Fisher said having "too" much testosterone is not associated with the characteristics she mentions for the NTs, like, can't really remember those..... she somehow argued that too much testosterone was associated with low social rank or something....pfh....don't know....the more I come to think about it, the more it sound like bs.......

 

[Totenkindly]

There does seem to be this odd discrepancy whereby male NTs are often less typically masculine and female NTs more so.

Agreed on that point, it seems to be a fair generalization.
But I'm not quite sure what specifically causes it either, although I too can speculate.

(But I do think the detached orientation to the world will violate the gender norms, considering gender is often expressed through overt engagement... Detachment from feelings and relational expectations might make a woman seem more masculine, detachment from banal competition/aggression might make a man seem more feminine.)

 

[INA]

(But I do think the detached orientation to the world will violate the gender norms, considering gender is often expressed through overt engagement... Detachment from feelings and relational expectations might make a woman seem more masculine, detachment from banal competition/aggression might make a man seem more feminine.)

This! And INTP men out number INTP women by a good clip, so the odds of coming across detached as-feminine-seeming INTPs are higher --> OP's question.

 

[Salomé]

Agreed on that point, it seems to be a fair generalization.
But I'm not quite sure what specifically causes it either, although I too can speculate.

(But I do think the detached orientation to the world will violate the gender norms, considering gender is often expressed through overt engagement... Detachment from feelings and relational expectations might make a woman seem more masculine, detachment from banal competition/aggression might make a man seem more feminine.)

That's part of it, but gender goes deeper than that. As you well know.

Morgan, I like your theory. Because it could mean that the OPs question could both be yes and no - yes, possibly NTs are exposed to more testosterone in the womb, but, possibly not necessarily during puberty....

I don't think post-puberty levels of testosterone have a bearing on innate personality. If anything there is decent research to suggest the relationship works the other way around: personality traits have a bearing on testosterone, the more aggressive you are, the more testosterone your body will release. Testosterone is closely related to cortisol, which mainly responds to environmental triggers (stress response).

Ah, I also remember that Fisher said having "too" much testosterone is not associated with the characteristics she mentions for the NTs, like, can't really remember those..... she somehow argued that too much testosterone was associated with low social rank or something....pfh....don't know....the more I come to think about it, the more it sound like bs.......

Fisher is a quack, but even quacks occasionally stumble across partial insights.

 

[Totenkindly]

That's part of it, but gender goes deeper than that. As you well know.

Yup. I just did not want to dig into the convoluted part right now, so I expressed the simple part. (You can tackle the convoluted part if you want! )

 

[JustHer]

nt females probably have more testosterone

 

[Valiant]

Just an another entp crazy thought... Maybe because we born with less testosterone than others, we all had a childhood with a lack of interest and energy in sports, and prefering to stay reading, daydreaming, thinking, solitary stuff, etc... and grew and develop a personality that favours thinking over doing, mind over body (at least in my case)
dont get me wrong, I enjoy playing basketball, swimming, pingpong, once in a while, but I prefer staying indoors and stimulate my mind
But I always wanted to try skydiving

Neh, I've always been very good at sports, building muscle mass and all sorts of pysical stuff.
I have high testosterone levels, as do my whole family.
*And* I also liked coming up with ideas, brainstorming, reading and God only knows what.
My imagination is what keeps me from being a total caveman In the "negative" sense of the word.

 

[Kra]

Aggressive drive and ambition are abundant in many NTs. These qualities fit the profile of testosterone.

As for the physical aspect, I've never been much of an team sports athlete, but I've always been interested in the individual skill-based sports. Archery, match-shooting, fencing, and martial arts have always been something I've wanted to get into (not many options other than football where I'm from though ). And, I've always understood the importance of fitness.