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  1. #31
    Aquaria mrcockburn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    Maybe it's just Se-deficient types this happens to? SJs and NPs?
    No. I know many ESTJs with male pattern baldness. This is an indication of too much androgen.
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  2. #32
    meinmeinmein! mmhmm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by angell_m View Post
    My father had a full beard when he was 18. I'm in my mid twenties and I still can't grow a full beard. But it's common these days. At least in Norway it is. The ones that can grow a full beard as young adult are in the tiny box, the rest of us who still look like we're fifteen at the age of 25 are in the big box. When I'm 40 I'm gonna look like I'm 25, so I'm probably gonna date 18 year olds, teheh.
    that's funny. i tend to think it's a genes thing.
    i've got asian genes, so despite being much older,
    i look like i'm 15. i dated a 37 year old and
    i'm sure people looked at us as if he was the
    dirty old man and i was his young toy.

    it makes me happy when they still card me.
    every normal man must be tempted, at times,
    to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag,
    and begin slitting throats.
    h.l. mencken

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    Me three.


    Yes. My tentative theory is that NTs were exposed to more testosterone in the womb when the basic brain pattern was laid down (this is fairly easy to gage with 2d:4d ratio). This "masculinization" predisposes them to autistic spectrum disorders (according to Baron-Cohen). INTs are over-represented when it comes to ASDs.

    The amount of testosterone circulating in the blood in adulthood is different from prenatal levels, which are under the influence of the mother.

    There does seem to be this odd discrepancy whereby male NTs are often less typically masculine and female NTs more so. I can think of a few reasons for that (both biochemical and sociological) but it would be pure speculation.
    this is in line with what I read about Helen Fisher's pseudo-scientific personality theory (NT - Directors + high levels of testosterone, NF - Negotiators and high levels of estrogen, SJ - Builder and high levels of serotonin, and SP - Explorer and high levels of dopamine)..... Even though Fisher's idea of linking personality to one dominant brain chemical seems ridiculously limited from my perspective, I think she only referred to NTs (directors) being exposed to high-levels of testosterone in the womb only, resulting in a ring-finger which is longer than the index-finger......

    Morgan, I like your theory. Because it could mean that the OPs question could both be yes and no - yes, possibly NTs are exposed to more testosterone in the womb, but, possibly not necessarily during puberty.....
    however....I don't know....... Ah, I also remember that Fisher said having "too" much testosterone is not associated with the characteristics she mentions for the NTs, like, can't really remember those..... she somehow argued that too much testosterone was associated with low social rank or something....pfh....don't know....the more I come to think about it, the more it sound like bs.......

  4. #34
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    There does seem to be this odd discrepancy whereby male NTs are often less typically masculine and female NTs more so.
    Agreed on that point, it seems to be a fair generalization.
    But I'm not quite sure what specifically causes it either, although I too can speculate.

    (But I do think the detached orientation to the world will violate the gender norms, considering gender is often expressed through overt engagement... Detachment from feelings and relational expectations might make a woman seem more masculine, detachment from banal competition/aggression might make a man seem more feminine.)
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #35
    now! in shell form INA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    (But I do think the detached orientation to the world will violate the gender norms, considering gender is often expressed through overt engagement... Detachment from feelings and relational expectations might make a woman seem more masculine, detachment from banal competition/aggression might make a man seem more feminine.)
    This! And INTP men out number INTP women by a good clip, so the odds of coming across detached as-feminine-seeming INTPs are higher --> OP's question.
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  6. #36
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Agreed on that point, it seems to be a fair generalization.
    But I'm not quite sure what specifically causes it either, although I too can speculate.

    (But I do think the detached orientation to the world will violate the gender norms, considering gender is often expressed through overt engagement... Detachment from feelings and relational expectations might make a woman seem more masculine, detachment from banal competition/aggression might make a man seem more feminine.)
    That's part of it, but gender goes deeper than that. As you well know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Halfjillhalfjack
    Morgan, I like your theory. Because it could mean that the OPs question could both be yes and no - yes, possibly NTs are exposed to more testosterone in the womb, but, possibly not necessarily during puberty....
    I don't think post-puberty levels of testosterone have a bearing on innate personality. If anything there is decent research to suggest the relationship works the other way around: personality traits have a bearing on testosterone, the more aggressive you are, the more testosterone your body will release. Testosterone is closely related to cortisol, which mainly responds to environmental triggers (stress response).
    Ah, I also remember that Fisher said having "too" much testosterone is not associated with the characteristics she mentions for the NTs, like, can't really remember those..... she somehow argued that too much testosterone was associated with low social rank or something....pfh....don't know....the more I come to think about it, the more it sound like bs.......
    Fisher is a quack, but even quacks occasionally stumble across partial insights.
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  7. #37
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    That's part of it, but gender goes deeper than that. As you well know.
    Yup. I just did not want to dig into the convoluted part right now, so I expressed the simple part. (You can tackle the convoluted part if you want! )
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #38
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    nt females probably have more testosterone

  9. #39
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cless986 View Post
    Just an another entp crazy thought... Maybe because we born with less testosterone than others, we all had a childhood with a lack of interest and energy in sports, and prefering to stay reading, daydreaming, thinking, solitary stuff, etc... and grew and develop a personality that favours thinking over doing, mind over body (at least in my case)
    dont get me wrong, I enjoy playing basketball, swimming, pingpong, once in a while, but I prefer staying indoors and stimulate my mind
    But I always wanted to try skydiving
    Neh, I've always been very good at sports, building muscle mass and all sorts of pysical stuff.
    I have high testosterone levels, as do my whole family.
    *And* I also liked coming up with ideas, brainstorming, reading and God only knows what.
    My imagination is what keeps me from being a total caveman In the "negative" sense of the word.

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

  10. #40
    Black Magic Buzzard Kra's Avatar
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    Aggressive drive and ambition are abundant in many NTs. These qualities fit the profile of testosterone.

    As for the physical aspect, I've never been much of an team sports athlete, but I've always been interested in the individual skill-based sports. Archery, match-shooting, fencing, and martial arts have always been something I've wanted to get into (not many options other than football where I'm from though ). And, I've always understood the importance of fitness.
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