INTJ's are pretty self-oriented. =\ It doesn't make sense for the INTJ, as a human being with feelings like everyone else, to be so oblivious about how the other person is feeling, but that is EXACTLY what happens. He is mentally and emotionally flooded with all of the things that have come with this closeness: the magnitude of him sharing himself with someone else, the closeness between the two of you, how he could not have imagined sharing himself before, happy that you accept him, wondering if you really do accept him, wondering if this closeness can be maintained (because closeness with an INTJ doesn't happen often/ever).
And now that he's not talking, he could either be worried that he's letting you down harsh, or, assuming that he does like you, he's thinking all sorts of self-defeating and paranoid thoughts about him not doing enough or him not having a chance. Either way he's also likely thinking about how you could be feeling, and feeling junk about it, but he is also too busy thinking about all of those other things I mentioned, and ISN'T DOING ANYTHING ABOUT IT. He's paralyzing himself. "Why am I not anything doing about this?" "Why do I suck so much at this stuff?" INTJ's have the gift of bombarding themselves with thoughts, even if it's the same damn thing over and over again, and even if it isn't rational. This is likely to show up with interpersonal or emotional stuff. The balance of personality...sadly, what I've stated just now is what offsets the independence and sincerity of an INTJ.
Oh, God...this is me exactly. All think, no do. Sometimes I forget that the other person is not privy to my internal dialogue and probably thinks I've blissfully forgotten them. What's going on inside is a battery of empirical tests that I subject the relationship to, trying to determine her interest level. The problem is that I rig the tests, and no woman can pass them. So I conclude that she can't possibly like me and I drift away, when in fact she might have liked me and all that was required was a little sign on my part that I liked her too. I/We never think about that part...about showing the other person that we like them, too. For being a rational type, we're terrible at accurately measuring others' feelings.
Because of their reliance on repeated computation and random or pseudo-random numbers, Monte Carlo methods are most suited to calculation by a computer. Monte Carlo methods tend to be used when it is infeasible or impossible to compute an exact result with a deterministic algorithm.
*sigh* Yet again, INTJs operate like computers... with emotions acting as the pseudo-random number generators.
Thanks so much for your insights. I only know a couple INTJs and they're enigmas, so this post really helps. Your self-awareness really leaves me in awe.
I know that like most introverts, INTJs need their space/time/distance, and I'm fine with that. I think I'll take your advice, and of course I'll see him again when school starts so it's a good start right there.
You're welcome. =) Other INTJ's are enigmas to me too, or at least they strike me that way, and I have a hard time getting to know them. Talking to them is no big deal, but getting deeper is trying. I felt awkward typing that, and I also had a hard time putting my thought process and experience into words. It was probably good for me. Good luck.
Originally Posted by FMWarner
I'm a shy INTJ, and I've come to realize that introversion and shyness are not the same thing, so my viewpoint may not be universal. Still, here's my two cents...
First of all, pay more attention to what he says than his body language. We put thought into our words and have no idea what kind of physical signs we're sending out. If he says he likes you but doesn't give you body language to match, believe him anyway.
Second, if he was hanging out with you very frequently like you say, that's an excellent sign. It's an effort for us to be social on a regular basis, and if he's making that effort consistently, it's a sign he likes you a lot.
Third, it's frustrating, but we DO tend to disappear for a while. Sometimes I go weeks without talking to any of my friends, and I don't really think anything of it. I know, however that that alarms a lot of people and makes them think I don't like them or value them. One of my ex-girlfriends called it "going into my cave". I'm not going to defend this behavior, because it can be hurtful, but that's just the way it is. He may be mulling over what he truly thinks of you and whether he wants to make a commitment to you. It's hard to say. But he could show up again out of the blue like nothing ever happened.
It takes some effort to become intimate with an INTJ, especially a shy one. It requires patience and trust. But I can tell you this much...once you're in with us, you're IN. We are dedicated, loyal and loving to those we've been able to truly connect with.
I would consider myself a fairly expressed INTJ. I did use to be super shy though.
With that first point, that's true. I know how to interpret things and what not, but sometimes I totally neglect the kind of impression I'm giving off with regards to body language, I'll just do things and not be aware of it, catch it later, and think: "Damn." Second one's true too.
The third one is too true. Especially the last part; I know I've come back to friends I've not spoken to in a while and assumed everything was just fine. And yet, if I were in their position, I know I'd think something was wrong.
We are very willing to work with those who do connect with us; I particularly like doing this because I feel like I grow when I do. Our loneliness, what makes us what we are, has to be attacked a little by ourselves/others/both, is all.
Originally Posted by FMWarner
The problem is that I rig the tests, and no woman can pass them. So I conclude that she can't possibly like me and I drift away, when in fact she might have liked me and all that was required was a little sign on my part that I liked her too. I/We never think about that part...about showing the other person that we like them, too. For being a rational type, we're terrible at accurately measuring others' feelings.
When I would get too paranoid I'd look into things that she wasn't doing, and conclude that there's no hope. We do have to be more open with our feelings.
Still using a needle to break apart a grain of sand.
...when an INTJ is in love with you?
...or if they're just really, really sick and leading you on?
If I'm in love with someone, I'm usually very secretive and I usually am at loss of what to say and the situation turns awkward. I look at him with a sense of longing, but only when I know that his back is facing me and my eyes become vacant, so most of the time not many people can tell what I'm really looking at. So... You usually don't know, if all things go as planned for an INTJ, unless they approach you, but that's just me.
I've never led anyone on so I wouldn't know, but granted, if I know my own type at all, I'd say that they do nothing without a reason. The INTJ's I've met over INTJ Forum are generally people with morals and values, and a strong sense of justice so unless under special circumstances, I don't think an average INTJ will lead you on for no good reason at all (unless he/she has some serious issues), and I can vouch for the INTJ's that I've met to refrain from doing that, but I don't know about all of them.
I: 78% N: 88% T: 66% J: 44% Enneagram: The Reformer/The Investigator Global 5:RCOEI
If you really want to test him, ask him a question about how he feels when he isn't paying attention and see how he reacts. If he is leading you on, he will probably have some sort of canned response. If he has to stop and think about it, it is probably a good sign.
Another thing to watch out for is that INTJs tend to have a much longer "gestation period" for romance. It takes us longer to figure out how we really feel about something, but when we figure it out the feelings tend to be strong and steadfast, fortified by our logical resolve.
However, when it comes to "leading people on", it is all too easy to exercise this quickly while ignoring emotions alltogether, even while "expressing" false emotions on the surface.
In the end, I would say err on the side of assuming that he is leading you on. At best, you will avoid a predator, and at worst you will win him over even more by playing hard to get (until you are certain of his intentions and true feelings).
Very good advice.
The only INTJ I've ever known was a chronic cheater, liar, and manipulator. If your instincts are telling you something is wrong, listen to them. Collect evidence if necessary. Make sure everything they say is consistent.
Gestation period is immensely long. I'm going on 2+ years of dating before realizing I might be in love. Even then, I'm waiting a couple months to make sure because my feelings aren't always obvious, especially to me.
If your person is genuine, give them the time and space they need to make a definite decision. It will happen, be patient.
This has been a very illuminating thread. I am an INFJ female who's recently become romantically involved with an INTJ male. Though our romantic relationship is recent, we've know each other for years and become close friends over the last several years. Both of us are cautious in matters of the heart, so it took us a long time to realize--much less admit to--our deeper feelings for each other. But now I'm beginning to wonder...by his own admission, he was a terrible woimanizer as a young man, though he says he was always up front with women that the relationships weren't permanent. Now he says he is in love for the first time in his life. As an INFJ, I'm usually pretty good at reading insincere or inauthentic folks and, like I said, I've known him for years. He seems to need a lot of reassurance that his feelings are reciprocated and I put this down to what I call his "emotional virginity," but now I wonder... Still, he has told me things I KNOW empirically he hasn't confided in anyone else. The relationship is complicated further by the fact that I have bipolar disorder and while I'm currently in remission, the only thing certain about remission is that it will change. I worry, even if this relationship is "real," how he will deal with my tumultuous mood swings when they occur--and occur they will. All that said, I love the easiness of our communication, though we approach things from different perspectives. And the intensity of the relationship...well!
Although I went through a period of dating a lot of women, and sleeping with a few along the way, I ALWAYS told them if it wasn't going to work as soon as I realised it: there was no stringing people along. Even if I knew for a fact I could have sex with them I'd cut things off if I knew it wouldn't be long term.
As for falling in love with someone, I would become absolutely obsessed by them, and would fantasise about things working out and what I might say. I was once very close to a girl, we talked for hours every day at work. I didn't flirt with her, but just used to talk about anything and everything. I used to look forward to going to work, just to see her. After months of thinking about it, I finally found her address from the manager's address book, and walked 5 miles to her house. It took me a while to find it, and when I finally knocked on the door, she wasn't in. I left a message with her mother, and she called me back thinking it was to do with work. She was completely stunned when she realised I wanted to date her. She had no idea I felt like that about her. It's funny but I thought it would have been obvious. I suppose INTJs are really bad at flirting haha.
Good question. I imagine that would be difficult to discern.
One thing is for certain: If an INTJ is being overtly emotional in non-verbal ways (body language, hugging, etc) that is probably a good sign that they are intentionally trying to manipulate you in some way.
If, however, the INTJ is authentically explaining himself in a way which is logically consistent, that is usually a good sign.
I don't know about that. If I am attracted to a girl, I would be more than happy to hug her given a chance.
And if I truly care about someone, I'd be a lot more likely to show that through actions (by doing things for her), instead of talking about my attraction to her in a logical manner. Who the hell wants to hear your mate explain their attraction to you "in a logically consistent" manner? My T is 100%, and if my mate described her attraction in a clear, consistent, logical manner, I would feel like I'm some kind of a item that was purchased instead of an object of affection.
Any INTJs want to throw their 2 cents into this? Or am I some sort of an albino of my type?