[INTJ] How can you tell...

[EffEmDoubleyou]

INTJ's are pretty self-oriented. =\ It doesn't make sense for the INTJ, as a human being with feelings like everyone else, to be so oblivious about how the other person is feeling, but that is EXACTLY what happens. He is mentally and emotionally flooded with all of the things that have come with this closeness: the magnitude of him sharing himself with someone else, the closeness between the two of you, how he could not have imagined sharing himself before, happy that you accept him, wondering if you really do accept him, wondering if this closeness can be maintained (because closeness with an INTJ doesn't happen often/ever).

And now that he's not talking, he could either be worried that he's letting you down harsh, or, assuming that he does like you, he's thinking all sorts of self-defeating and paranoid thoughts about him not doing enough or him not having a chance. Either way he's also likely thinking about how you could be feeling, and feeling junk about it, but he is also too busy thinking about all of those other things I mentioned, and ISN'T DOING ANYTHING ABOUT IT. He's paralyzing himself. "Why am I not anything doing about this?" "Why do I suck so much at this stuff?" INTJ's have the gift of bombarding themselves with thoughts, even if it's the same damn thing over and over again, and even if it isn't rational. This is likely to show up with interpersonal or emotional stuff. The balance of personality...sadly, what I've stated just now is what offsets the independence and sincerity of an INTJ.

Oh, God...this is me exactly. All think, no do. Sometimes I forget that the other person is not privy to my internal dialogue and probably thinks I've blissfully forgotten them. What's going on inside is a battery of empirical tests that I subject the relationship to, trying to determine her interest level. The problem is that I rig the tests, and no woman can pass them. So I conclude that she can't possibly like me and I drift away, when in fact she might have liked me and all that was required was a little sign on my part that I liked her too. I/We never think about that part...about showing the other person that we like them, too. For being a rational type, we're terrible at accurately measuring others' feelings.

 

[Apollonian]

What's going on inside is a battery of empirical tests that I subject the relationship to, trying to determine her interest level.

The Monte Carlo approach to dating. I love it.

Because of their reliance on repeated computation and random or pseudo-random numbers, Monte Carlo methods are most suited to calculation by a computer. Monte Carlo methods tend to be used when it is infeasible or impossible to compute an exact result with a deterministic algorithm.

*sigh* Yet again, INTJs operate like computers... with emotions acting as the pseudo-random number generators.

 

[FallsPioneer]

Thanks so much for your insights. I only know a couple INTJs and they're enigmas, so this post really helps. Your self-awareness really leaves me in awe.
I know that like most introverts, INTJs need their space/time/distance, and I'm fine with that. I think I'll take your advice, and of course I'll see him again when school starts so it's a good start right there.
Thanks again.

You're welcome. =) Other INTJ's are enigmas to me too, or at least they strike me that way, and I have a hard time getting to know them. Talking to them is no big deal, but getting deeper is trying. I felt awkward typing that, and I also had a hard time putting my thought process and experience into words. It was probably good for me. Good luck.

I'm a shy INTJ, and I've come to realize that introversion and shyness are not the same thing, so my viewpoint may not be universal. Still, here's my two cents...

First of all, pay more attention to what he says than his body language. We put thought into our words and have no idea what kind of physical signs we're sending out. If he says he likes you but doesn't give you body language to match, believe him anyway.

Second, if he was hanging out with you very frequently like you say, that's an excellent sign. It's an effort for us to be social on a regular basis, and if he's making that effort consistently, it's a sign he likes you a lot.

Third, it's frustrating, but we DO tend to disappear for a while. Sometimes I go weeks without talking to any of my friends, and I don't really think anything of it. I know, however that that alarms a lot of people and makes them think I don't like them or value them. One of my ex-girlfriends called it "going into my cave". I'm not going to defend this behavior, because it can be hurtful, but that's just the way it is. He may be mulling over what he truly thinks of you and whether he wants to make a commitment to you. It's hard to say. But he could show up again out of the blue like nothing ever happened.

It takes some effort to become intimate with an INTJ, especially a shy one. It requires patience and trust. But I can tell you this much...once you're in with us, you're IN. We are dedicated, loyal and loving to those we've been able to truly connect with.

I would consider myself a fairly expressed INTJ. I did use to be super shy though.

With that first point, that's true. I know how to interpret things and what not, but sometimes I totally neglect the kind of impression I'm giving off with regards to body language, I'll just do things and not be aware of it, catch it later, and think: "Damn." Second one's true too.

The third one is too true. Especially the last part; I know I've come back to friends I've not spoken to in a while and assumed everything was just fine. And yet, if I were in their position, I know I'd think something was wrong.

We are very willing to work with those who do connect with us; I particularly like doing this because I feel like I grow when I do. Our loneliness, what makes us what we are, has to be attacked a little by ourselves/others/both, is all.

The problem is that I rig the tests, and no woman can pass them. So I conclude that she can't possibly like me and I drift away, when in fact she might have liked me and all that was required was a little sign on my part that I liked her too. I/We never think about that part...about showing the other person that we like them, too. For being a rational type, we're terrible at accurately measuring others' feelings.

When I would get too paranoid I'd look into things that she wasn't doing, and conclude that there's no hope. We do have to be more open with our feelings.

 

[Camelopardalis]

...when an INTJ is in love with you?
...or if they're just really, really sick and leading you on?

If I'm in love with someone, I'm usually very secretive and I usually am at loss of what to say and the situation turns awkward. I look at him with a sense of longing, but only when I know that his back is facing me and my eyes become vacant, so most of the time not many people can tell what I'm really looking at. So... You usually don't know, if all things go as planned for an INTJ, unless they approach you, but that's just me.

I've never led anyone on so I wouldn't know, but granted, if I know my own type at all, I'd say that they do nothing without a reason. The INTJ's I've met over INTJ Forum are generally people with morals and values, and a strong sense of justice so unless under special circumstances, I don't think an average INTJ will lead you on for no good reason at all (unless he/she has some serious issues), and I can vouch for the INTJ's that I've met to refrain from doing that, but I don't know about all of them.

 

[Metanoia]

Lovely thread. I realized many things.

As an INTJ, I definitely agree with everything that I have read about my type's reaction mechanism here. I just hope I never missed a thing.

 

[01011010]

If you really want to test him, ask him a question about how he feels when he isn't paying attention and see how he reacts. If he is leading you on, he will probably have some sort of canned response. If he has to stop and think about it, it is probably a good sign.

Another thing to watch out for is that INTJs tend to have a much longer "gestation period" for romance. It takes us longer to figure out how we really feel about something, but when we figure it out the feelings tend to be strong and steadfast, fortified by our logical resolve.

However, when it comes to "leading people on", it is all too easy to exercise this quickly while ignoring emotions alltogether, even while "expressing" false emotions on the surface.

In the end, I would say err on the side of assuming that he is leading you on. At best, you will avoid a predator, and at worst you will win him over even more by playing hard to get (until you are certain of his intentions and true feelings).

Very good advice.

The only INTJ I've ever known was a chronic cheater, liar, and manipulator. If your instincts are telling you something is wrong, listen to them. Collect evidence if necessary. Make sure everything they say is consistent.

Gestation period is immensely long. I'm going on 2+ years of dating before realizing I might be in love. Even then, I'm waiting a couple months to make sure because my feelings aren't always obvious, especially to me.

If your person is genuine, give them the time and space they need to make a definite decision. It will happen, be patient.

 

[cherchair]

This has been a very illuminating thread. I am an INFJ female who's recently become romantically involved with an INTJ male. Though our romantic relationship is recent, we've know each other for years and become close friends over the last several years. Both of us are cautious in matters of the heart, so it took us a long time to realize--much less admit to--our deeper feelings for each other. But now I'm beginning to wonder...by his own admission, he was a terrible woimanizer as a young man, though he says he was always up front with women that the relationships weren't permanent. Now he says he is in love for the first time in his life. As an INFJ, I'm usually pretty good at reading insincere or inauthentic folks and, like I said, I've known him for years. He seems to need a lot of reassurance that his feelings are reciprocated and I put this down to what I call his "emotional virginity," but now I wonder... Still, he has told me things I KNOW empirically he hasn't confided in anyone else. The relationship is complicated further by the fact that I have bipolar disorder and while I'm currently in remission, the only thing certain about remission is that it will change. I worry, even if this relationship is "real," how he will deal with my tumultuous mood swings when they occur--and occur they will. All that said, I love the easiness of our communication, though we approach things from different perspectives. And the intensity of the relationship...well!

 

[ed111]

Although I went through a period of dating a lot of women, and sleeping with a few along the way, I ALWAYS told them if it wasn't going to work as soon as I realised it: there was no stringing people along. Even if I knew for a fact I could have sex with them I'd cut things off if I knew it wouldn't be long term.

As for falling in love with someone, I would become absolutely obsessed by them, and would fantasise about things working out and what I might say. I was once very close to a girl, we talked for hours every day at work. I didn't flirt with her, but just used to talk about anything and everything. I used to look forward to going to work, just to see her. After months of thinking about it, I finally found her address from the manager's address book, and walked 5 miles to her house. It took me a while to find it, and when I finally knocked on the door, she wasn't in. I left a message with her mother, and she called me back thinking it was to do with work. She was completely stunned when she realised I wanted to date her. She had no idea I felt like that about her. It's funny but I thought it would have been obvious. I suppose INTJs are really bad at flirting haha.

 

[Edgar]

Good question. I imagine that would be difficult to discern.

One thing is for certain: If an INTJ is being overtly emotional in non-verbal ways (body language, hugging, etc) that is probably a good sign that they are intentionally trying to manipulate you in some way.

If, however, the INTJ is authentically explaining himself in a way which is logically consistent, that is usually a good sign.

I don't know about that. If I am attracted to a girl, I would be more than happy to hug her given a chance.

And if I truly care about someone, I'd be a lot more likely to show that through actions (by doing things for her), instead of talking about my attraction to her in a logical manner. Who the hell wants to hear your mate explain their attraction to you "in a logically consistent" manner? My T is 100%, and if my mate described her attraction in a clear, consistent, logical manner, I would feel like I'm some kind of a item that was purchased instead of an object of affection.

Any INTJs want to throw their 2 cents into this? Or am I some sort of an albino of my type?

 

[Sniffles]

Scary, huh?

Please don't remind me.

 

[GargoylesLegacy]

Hm, how can you tell...Well, I am an INTJ but it kinda differs. But I guess mostly I wanna know lots of Things about that Person. Sometimes it is a really individual Thing. I mean some People are "scared" if you do certain Things and others might like them so I *try* to do what is most comfy for them. But mostly I would really say "wanting to know Everything". Like every Detail, even if it is boring as Hell *lol*

 

[Harlow_Jem]

...when an INTJ is in love with you?
...or if they're just really, really sick and leading you on?

INTJ's rarely, if ever fuck around. If they want you, they'll be there. They've got to be a pretty sick INTJ to be leading you on. And if they're leading you on, it's probably for the purpose of using you to get something or to get something from you, not merely just to play around.

 

[Airius]

You have to consider with dating that anyone is capable of leading you on; anyone can be manipulative. I don't think there's a specific manner to deal with each type as far as approaching them about their romantic intentions.

Ask for a straight forward answer on it, and pay close attention to his actions. Chances are, if you're unsure whether or not he's leading you on, you probably already know the answer.

 

[Misty_Mountain_Rose]

I agree with everything posted in here about reactions to close relationships.

I might also add that the most 'chaotic' times in my life have been when I was involved with someone on a romantic level. There is so much TURMOIL that accompanies getting close to someone for me that I need HUGE amounts of time after a dating relationship ends before I get back out there. Lots of time to process, hash over the 'what should I have done differently' and ultimately come to terms with the fact that it ended.

I also meticulously try not to make the same mistakes over and over. IE Dating someone who was a hard-core online gamer for a long time made me swear never to date another one. etc etc. The list of things to avoid is getting frighteningly long the older I get, which is kind of scary since I know that, rationally, I shouldn't judge others in new relationships by past lovers, but it happens anyway. I categorize them into 'Good' and 'Bad' traits and weigh them at the onset of every possible new 'connection'. Its depressingly 'calculated' when I do decide to try to get close to someone. If I get to that point, they've passed all of the 'prerequisites' that I have for beginning a relationship, and now I want to find out more.

Once the 'getting close' begins however, my world kind of turns inside out, especially if there are things about the person that I've decided to 'overlook' about them in the weighing process. I have been known to go from extreme, EXTREME swings of feeling connected to a person to thinking we know nothing about each other, and the attachment/detachment that comes with both scenarios... all within a few hours time. It is hell on the side of me that is frantically trying to categorize and understand all of the emotions. Much like the stock-markets, I go into this 'over-correcting' rollercoaster and don't find the middle-ground very easily. If I'm lucky, I can keep my partner out of the loop while all of this craziness goes on and present a united front to them.

Inside my head though, it gets really crazy.

 

[ez78705]

I'm not even sure what "love" means. But I know what commitment is.

 

[SillySapienne]

I don't know about that. If I am attracted to a girl, I would be more than happy to hug her given a chance.

And if I truly care about someone, I'd be a lot more likely to show that through actions (by doing things for her), instead of talking about my attraction to her in a logical manner. Who the hell wants to hear your mate explain their attraction to you "in a logically consistent" manner? My T is 100%, and if my mate described her attraction in a clear, consistent, logical manner, I would feel like I'm some kind of a item that was purchased instead of an object of affection.

Any INTJs want to throw their 2 cents into this? Or am I some sort of an albino of my type?

LOL!!!

 

[Amargith]

LOL@ Edgar.

Doesnt it happen though that an INTJ doesn't know how to express his feelings, doesn't dare to get physical (which seems to be easier for you guys..just go to the whole touchy feely stuff FiSe gives ya), and would then resort to trying to explain it, and automatically fall into the pitfall of using Te to do so?

I'm just guessing here as mine kinda just jumped me and hugged me crazy the first time he saw me irl. He did however, once he decided that he wanted to date me (there were complications before that so it wasn't possible), explain concisely that he wanted to date me and wanted to do it now, as I was single so he didn't risk me bringing home some Russian guy (I was an exchange student in Russia for a year) even though he realised that would make it a long distance relationship.

 

[Edgar]

LOL@ Edgar.

Doesnt it happen though that an INTJ doesn't know how to express his feelings, doesn't dare to get physical (which seems to be easier for you guys..just go to the whole touchy feely stuff FiSe gives ya), and would then resort to trying to explain it, and automatically fall into the pitfall of using Te to do so?

Once mutual attraction is confirmed, I'm all about getting physical. In fact, I would be quite annoyed if the g/f was holding back... I'd be like "What is this bullshit? Do you like me or not?"

But the whole "not knowing how to verbally express feelings" does remain. INTJs have plenty of feelings, it's just that they are viewed as something that is susceptible to illogical motivations, and therefore a source of vulnerability. A verbal admission to them is like an admission to a weakness - not something an INTJ is fond of doing.

 

[Amargith]

Oh I can confirm that from my side, yes. Actually, mine told me I loved him first to my face with quite a bit of arrogance. Open book *sigh*. After that he had no problem claiming what he considered his anyway, verbally, and telling me it was mutual at last. But the physical thing..that was before anyone of us even fessed up to feelings for one another, we were just very good friends.

I mean, I even asked him if he wanted me to not be physical with him ( I hug people I like). He asked me not to. So I restrain myself, talk to him for 10 minutes and find him attacking me from behind
And he didn't leave me alone anymore after that physically. Sitting against me, lying on my shoulder, touching my hand, cuddling..you name it. Explanation: he just felt 'comfortable' with me :rolli:

 

[forzen]

Sooooo,

this chick grab me and put me on her lap while i was talking to her in a group of her friends, i kind of went blank and walk off without saying anything. We're not really close friend, I just like talking to her and nothing more. I only knew her for like a month. I don't know what happened, i guess it was unexpected. How do i remedy this situation. She probably felt creeped out that i just walked out....