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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apollonian View Post
    Well, let me put it this way. Don't play "hard to get" in the sense of feigning emotion that you don't have. Always be genuine. I'm simply saying that, as an ESFJ, you are more likely to express your emotions freely when INTJs do not. So, it is good to "level the playing field" so to speak. Give the INTJ something to work for and if he really likes you (unless he is shy), he will definitely pursue you. But if you express your interest in him too freely, it is too easy for an INTJ to just play along without really understanding what he feels.

    Bottom line: Give the INTJ an opportunity to express himself in thoughts and words, which requires toning down the emotional charge of your interaction long enough to get the truth out of him.
    Good advice. Be genuine, but not too free with your emotions. You don't want to scare him away with too much feeling...or drama....as it will make him run. But make him work...and then you'll know if he is genuine about his feelings.

  2. #12
    Senior Member FallsPioneer's Avatar
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    Well first off, Evans Blue is a fairly good band. I haven't listened to the second CD but my favorite song from the first one is Over.

    Anyway, initiating contact (physical or otherwise, but physical is NOT LIKELY) is one thing. It means much for an INTJ if they go up to the object of their affections.

    If someone goes up to an INTJ and likes the INTJ, definitely beware of what Apollonian said.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apollonian View Post
    But if you express your interest in him too freely, it is too easy for an INTJ to just play along without really understanding what he feels. I have seen this dynamic again and again, and it can have a tendency to cause Feeling types a lot of pain when the INTJ finally comes to express that he does not feel the same way after having already established a flirtatious relationship.
    (by the way, with regards to the last part of the quote, the INTJ will usually express disinterest indirectly...so it's difficult. Oh, and "freely" is the keyword up there.)

    INTJ's are fairly self-aware, and, in lieu of that idea that emotions tend not to be the INTJ strong suit, won't know how to let someone down in the "right way." INTJ's will either "lead the other person on" or suddenly disappear off the face of the Earth/ignore the other person completely.

    Keep an eye out for "distant interaction" from INTJ's. If they're just smiling at you or something, always assume that they're being nice. Even if it's obvious that they're into you when doing this, don't give it meaning, because if you play along it enables the INTJ to continue their game. And it could all be for naught, because no party can actually call the other on anything, and the INTJ will probably know that they can get away with what they're doing. If that INTJ is not being direct with you about feelings, don't be direct with that INTJ.

    With little things like flirting, INTJ's are quick to get a high off of that, and can just as easily abandon the whole idea (...and the person...) without a second glance when they're "done." The slick, suave, personable, player INTJ. Bad news.

    INTJ's do take a while for their feelings to "mature," so if the INTJ isn't the "initiator," the INTJ could flirt/flirt back while entertaining a romantic possibility, figuring out their feelings.

    Likewise, they can be totally great. The above is if you're dealing with a bad INTJ.

    INTJ's won't always be pieces of shit if a person that likes them goes up to them and flirts with them. But they could still take a long time to figure their feelings out. Pace Is The Trick.

    You will usually be able to tell if an INTJ likes you if they engage in repeated direct contact with you. INTJ's don't even flirt for the most part; the INTJ idea of flirting is usually just talking or being around that person (likely why starting relationships can be difficult with an INTJ). Their presence and the presence of the other person matter most. Which I guess is lame compared to other people's ideas, but we're kind of lame people. =\ Even though everybody's around a lot of people everyday, it's just different when it's THAT person, and they become really conscious of that.

    INTJ's can be too conscious of their romantic feelings and may turn themselves into awkward wrecks. Also, INTJ's, true to their character, always do less than they want to, because they likely have grandiose visions of how they could flirt with that special someone. They're vision people, but they also try to analyze all of their moves, never seeming to know when they're doing too much or not enough.

    Regardless of whether or not INTJ's think they're all that, it's really special to the INTJ if they share themselves with another in some way. The same applies if the other person shares something about them with the INTJ. It's difficult usually for the INTJ to be so personal, but that is why it's all the more special. Relationships are just difficult, even with the most personable INTJ. Get there, and people should find a really dedicated lover.

    I can't think of anything else right now...

    edit: I own up to some of the manipulative stuff mentioned in the first part of my post...it was mostly a middle school thing for me, but still, it was no good.
    Still using a needle to break apart a grain of sand.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by FallsPioneer View Post
    INTJ's are fairly self-aware, and, in lieu of that idea that emotions tend not to be the INTJ strong suit, won't know how to let someone down in the "right way." INTJ's will either "lead the other person on" or suddenly disappear off the face of the Earth/ignore the other person completely.
    INTJs definitely....do this.....if they don't know how to let you know that they aren't interested....they just disappear off the face of the earth. Come to think of it....my two male INTJ friends did this.....when I indicated that we were just friends. I think both got their feelings hurt...and didn't want to put their feelings on the line.

  4. #14
    Senior Member girlnamedbless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FallsPioneer View Post
    Well first off, Evans Blue is a fairly good band. I haven't listened to the second CD but my favorite song from the first one is Over.

    Anyway, initiating contact (physical or otherwise, but physical is NOT LIKELY) is one thing. It means much for an INTJ if they go up to the object of their affections.

    If someone goes up to an INTJ and likes the INTJ, definitely beware of what Apollonian said.



    (by the way, with regards to the last part of the quote, the INTJ will usually express disinterest indirectly...so it's difficult. Oh, and "freely" is the keyword up there.)

    INTJ's are fairly self-aware, and, in lieu of that idea that emotions tend not to be the INTJ strong suit, won't know how to let someone down in the "right way." INTJ's will either "lead the other person on" or suddenly disappear off the face of the Earth/ignore the other person completely.

    Keep an eye out for "distant interaction" from INTJ's. If they're just smiling at you or something, always assume that they're being nice. Even if it's obvious that they're into you when doing this, don't give it meaning, because if you play along it enables the INTJ to continue their game. And it could all be for naught, because no party can actually call the other on anything, and the INTJ will probably know that they can get away with what they're doing. If that INTJ is not being direct with you about feelings, don't be direct with that INTJ.

    With little things like flirting, INTJ's are quick to get a high off of that, and can just as easily abandon the whole idea (...and the person...) without a second glance when they're "done." The slick, suave, personable, player INTJ. Bad news.

    INTJ's do take a while for their feelings to "mature," so if the INTJ isn't the "initiator," the INTJ could flirt/flirt back while entertaining a romantic possibility, figuring out their feelings.

    Likewise, they can be totally great. The above is if you're dealing with a bad INTJ.

    INTJ's won't always be pieces of shit if a person that likes them goes up to them and flirts with them. But they could still take a long time to figure their feelings out. Pace Is The Trick.

    You will usually be able to tell if an INTJ likes you if they engage in repeated direct contact with you. INTJ's don't even flirt for the most part; the INTJ idea of flirting is usually just talking or being around that person (likely why starting relationships can be difficult with an INTJ). Their presence and the presence of the other person matter most. Which I guess is lame compared to other people's ideas, but we're kind of lame people. =\ Even though everybody's around a lot of people everyday, it's just different when it's THAT person, and they become really conscious of that.

    INTJ's can be too conscious of their romantic feelings and may turn themselves into awkward wrecks. Also, INTJ's, true to their character, always do less than they want to, because they likely have grandiose visions of how they could flirt with that special someone. They're vision people, but they also try to analyze all of their moves, never seeming to know when they're doing too much or not enough.

    Regardless of whether or not INTJ's think they're all that, it's really special to the INTJ if they share themselves with another in some way. The same applies if the other person shares something about them with the INTJ. It's difficult usually for the INTJ to be so personal, but that is why it's all the more special. Relationships are just difficult, even with the most personable INTJ. Get there, and people should find a really dedicated lover.

    I can't think of anything else right now...

    edit: I own up to some of the manipulative stuff mentioned in the first part of my post...it was mostly a middle school thing for me, but still, it was no good.
    Thank you so much for this post. It was very insightful.
    I'm just sort of conflicted cause we would hang out every night, and I even got the whole "I never told anyone this before" speech from him. He told me all of these things about his past and I could see it in his eyes that it was hard for him to talk about. We got pretty close, and we would see each other everyday and I felt close to him. He was definitely different than any guy I've ever met, because he was so genuine. Most guys just give compliments and think you're all in love with them, but this guy was so different. He even told me that I was different. Then all of a sudden he disappears, like with no warning. A warning would have been nice.
    My main question is, how could you not be aware of what you're doing to the other person and just leave them in the dark like that? I used to blame myself and assure myself that I was the one who did something wrong to push him away, but then I realized that I did nothing other than be a good friend to him.
    I'd rather him tell me I'm a bitch and that he hates me and never wants to speak to me again. At least I'd get over it with time, instead of wondering "what if.." for the rest of my life..
    I bet they'll put something in the air tonight, just to light your face.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by girlnamedbless View Post
    My main question is, how could you not be aware of what you're doing to the other person and just leave them in the dark like that? I used to blame myself and assure myself that I was the one who did something wrong to push him away, but then I realized that I did nothing other than be a good friend to him.
    I'd rather him tell me I'm a bitch and that he hates me and never wants to speak to me again. At least I'd get over it with time, instead of wondering "what if.." for the rest of my life..
    I know exactly how you feel. One of my INTJ male friends (we used to date) did things like this to me. I finally figured out that he didn't really realize how much he was hurting me by doing this type of thing. From my experience, INTJ males are so out of touch with their own feelings....that they just cannot cope with any emotion...whether it be yours or their own. It really sounds like classic "non-committal" behavior. Did you ever contact him to see what happened?
    But the bottom line is.....you deserve to be treated with respect. Don't accept anything less.

  6. #16
    Senior Member FallsPioneer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by girlnamedbless View Post
    Thank you so much for this post. It was very insightful.
    I'm just sort of conflicted cause we would hang out every night, and I even got the whole "I never told anyone this before" speech from him. He told me all of these things about his past and I could see it in his eyes that it was hard for him to talk about. We got pretty close, and we would see each other everyday and I felt close to him. He was definitely different than any guy I've ever met, because he was so genuine. Most guys just give compliments and think you're all in love with them, but this guy was so different. He even told me that I was different. Then all of a sudden he disappears, like with no warning. A warning would have been nice.
    My main question is, how could you not be aware of what you're doing to the other person and just leave them in the dark like that? I used to blame myself and assure myself that I was the one who did something wrong to push him away, but then I realized that I did nothing other than be a good friend to him.
    I'd rather him tell me I'm a bitch and that he hates me and never wants to speak to me again. At least I'd get over it with time, instead of wondering "what if.." for the rest of my life..
    Sure thing. =)

    As for your INTJ...his desertion is a typical INTJ response. It's probably tied somehow to how close the two of you have gotten, and how much he's opened up to you. He's not behaving differently around anyone else, is he? Per the usual, it could be anything...but I think there's a fear involved, either that you could like him (and if he doesn't like you, this is the INTJ break-up method), or that he could like you. Yeah, he can fear his own liking you, especially if he's liked you for a while; I know I've been terrified of the idea that my dream could be close to a reality. In which case, he is at an absolute loss as to what to do. You said he told you all sorts of things about himself that he never told anyone else...I would say there are/were feelings involved. I'm just gonna say that I don't endorse anything he's doing, as far as I know you were just yourself and did nothing wrong, but this is likely what's going on:

    INTJ's are pretty self-oriented. =\ It doesn't make sense for the INTJ, as a human being with feelings like everyone else, to be so oblivious about how the other person is feeling, but that is EXACTLY what happens. He is mentally and emotionally flooded with all of the things that have come with this closeness: the magnitude of him sharing himself with someone else, the closeness between the two of you, how he could not have imagined sharing himself before, happy that you accept him, wondering if you really do accept him, wondering if this closeness can be maintained (because closeness with an INTJ doesn't happen often/ever).

    And now that he's not talking, he could either be worried that he's letting you down harsh, or, assuming that he does like you, he's thinking all sorts of self-defeating and paranoid thoughts about him not doing enough or him not having a chance. Either way he's also likely thinking about how you could be feeling, and feeling junk about it, but he is also too busy thinking about all of those other things I mentioned, and ISN'T DOING ANYTHING ABOUT IT. He's paralyzing himself. "Why am I not anything doing about this?" "Why do I suck so much at this stuff?" INTJ's have the gift of bombarding themselves with thoughts, even if it's the same damn thing over and over again, and even if it isn't rational. This is likely to show up with interpersonal or emotional stuff. The balance of personality...sadly, what I've stated just now is what offsets the independence and sincerity of an INTJ.

    There's an air to many INTJ's...the self-assuredness. What happens we step outside ourselves and into the realm of others, and when others step into our own? An INTJ will probably think and think and think about this. Because we excel at being ourselves, for the most part, but the deeper we get with other people, it's just different, we're out of our element. There are tons of INTJ's who do in fact fear rejection, that's why they play it cool or friendly and don't get deeper, though INTJ's long for meaningful relationships. Think and no action. Does it really take that much effort to form a shallow one? We can be so damn complicated. It's frustrating for us, but those who love us have it much worse than we do. We'll be so close to what we so terribly desire, and yet, just not there, because we....I don't know. I don't know what it is, but we're not taking responsibility/intiative and doing what we know we should be doing. I can't understand why so many so many of us fail at this, I mean, I know why we do, but somehow it doesn't "make sense." It looks simple, it IS simple, but it's...not? This isn't an INTJ sob story, but more so a really grim picture of things.

    Sounds like more than anything, you just wish he'd talk to you, say SOMETHING, even if it's the harshest possible thing. Better than nothing, being left to wander in the dark. I have to say I've thought about that often. Which could be worse--to have a horrible relationship with someone, or to have no relationship? To have him call you a bitch (he's not likely to do that) or to have him say nothing (he's doing that)? Different story.

    So yeah, he's aware of what he's doing, but he isn't saying or doing anything about it, probably too caught up with his insides. It's a good thing that all people have the potential to grow.

    Left alone to himself for too long in that state of brooding, he could eventually focus too much on himself and thus abandon his emotional part of the closeness between you two. He also could have a change of heart and come back...but things don't seem to be going this way.

    Sad situation to be in. If you still want to talk to him, caring for him romantically or not, nudge yourself steadily back into his world, and talk to him, preferably with lighter conversation. Don't be pushy, but steadily talk to him more. Once you two are on better speaking terms and are friendlier, he should be put on the spot and asked what happened, if he won't do it himself. It's for his own good.

    If he turns down offers for you to hang out with him, won't talk at all, or does his best to disassociate himself from you, you've done all you can. I hope that he has a change of heart. It's a really dedicated and persistent friend who's the friend of an INTJ.

    Hope your stuff works out.
    Still using a needle to break apart a grain of sand.

  7. #17
    Junior Member truth's Avatar
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    I have left relationships without giving the other person a reason as to why but that was mainly because I felt I did not know how to express to that persn I was no longer interested. Mostly afraid that they may get overly emotional or violent. I have never dissapeared on someone for the sake of leaving but simply because I did not want to encounter chaos or violence.
    Last edited by truth; 01-04-2008 at 06:10 PM. Reason: grammar

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by FallsPioneer View Post
    If you still want to talk to him, caring for him romantically or not, nudge yourself steadily back into his world, and talk to him, preferably with lighter conversation. Don't be pushy, but steadily talk to him more. Once you two are on better speaking terms and are friendlier, he should be put on the spot and asked what happened, if he won't do it himself. It's for his own good.

    If he turns down offers for you to hang out with him, won't talk at all, or does his best to disassociate himself from you, you've done all you can. I hope that he has a change of heart. It's a really dedicated and persistent friend who's the friend of an INTJ.
    This is excellent advice. I finally just went over to his house (unannounced, but I don't think he cared!) after my phone calls and emails went unanswered. Don't be too demanding, but see if you can nudge the conversation into a "what happened" chat. This way you can get closure on the whole thing. And then it is probably up to you to decide if you want to remain friends with him or not, but don't damage your own self-esteem in order to be with him. He'll understand.

  9. #19
    Senior Member girlnamedbless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FallsPioneer View Post
    Sure thing. =)

    As for your INTJ...his desertion is a typical INTJ response. It's probably tied somehow to how close the two of you have gotten, and how much he's opened up to you. He's not behaving differently around anyone else, is he? Per the usual, it could be anything...but I think there's a fear involved, either that you could like him (and if he doesn't like you, this is the INTJ break-up method), or that he could like you. Yeah, he can fear his own liking you, especially if he's liked you for a while; I know I've been terrified of the idea that my dream could be close to a reality. In which case, he is at an absolute loss as to what to do. You said he told you all sorts of things about himself that he never told anyone else...I would say there are/were feelings involved. I'm just gonna say that I don't endorse anything he's doing, as far as I know you were just yourself and did nothing wrong, but this is likely what's going on:

    INTJ's are pretty self-oriented. =\ It doesn't make sense for the INTJ, as a human being with feelings like everyone else, to be so oblivious about how the other person is feeling, but that is EXACTLY what happens. He is mentally and emotionally flooded with all of the things that have come with this closeness: the magnitude of him sharing himself with someone else, the closeness between the two of you, how he could not have imagined sharing himself before, happy that you accept him, wondering if you really do accept him, wondering if this closeness can be maintained (because closeness with an INTJ doesn't happen often/ever).

    And now that he's not talking, he could either be worried that he's letting you down harsh, or, assuming that he does like you, he's thinking all sorts of self-defeating and paranoid thoughts about him not doing enough or him not having a chance. Either way he's also likely thinking about how you could be feeling, and feeling junk about it, but he is also too busy thinking about all of those other things I mentioned, and ISN'T DOING ANYTHING ABOUT IT. He's paralyzing himself. "Why am I not anything doing about this?" "Why do I suck so much at this stuff?" INTJ's have the gift of bombarding themselves with thoughts, even if it's the same damn thing over and over again, and even if it isn't rational. This is likely to show up with interpersonal or emotional stuff. The balance of personality...sadly, what I've stated just now is what offsets the independence and sincerity of an INTJ.

    There's an air to many INTJ's...the self-assuredness. What happens we step outside ourselves and into the realm of others, and when others step into our own? An INTJ will probably think and think and think about this. Because we excel at being ourselves, for the most part, but the deeper we get with other people, it's just different, we're out of our element. There are tons of INTJ's who do in fact fear rejection, that's why they play it cool or friendly and don't get deeper, though INTJ's long for meaningful relationships. Think and no action. Does it really take that much effort to form a shallow one? We can be so damn complicated. It's frustrating for us, but those who love us have it much worse than we do. We'll be so close to what we so terribly desire, and yet, just not there, because we....I don't know. I don't know what it is, but we're not taking responsibility/intiative and doing what we know we should be doing. I can't understand why so many so many of us fail at this, I mean, I know why we do, but somehow it doesn't "make sense." It looks simple, it IS simple, but it's...not? This isn't an INTJ sob story, but more so a really grim picture of things.

    Sounds like more than anything, you just wish he'd talk to you, say SOMETHING, even if it's the harshest possible thing. Better than nothing, being left to wander in the dark. I have to say I've thought about that often. Which could be worse--to have a horrible relationship with someone, or to have no relationship? To have him call you a bitch (he's not likely to do that) or to have him say nothing (he's doing that)? Different story.

    So yeah, he's aware of what he's doing, but he isn't saying or doing anything about it, probably too caught up with his insides. It's a good thing that all people have the potential to grow.

    Left alone to himself for too long in that state of brooding, he could eventually focus too much on himself and thus abandon his emotional part of the closeness between you two. He also could have a change of heart and come back...but things don't seem to be going this way.

    Sad situation to be in. If you still want to talk to him, caring for him romantically or not, nudge yourself steadily back into his world, and talk to him, preferably with lighter conversation. Don't be pushy, but steadily talk to him more. Once you two are on better speaking terms and are friendlier, he should be put on the spot and asked what happened, if he won't do it himself. It's for his own good.

    If he turns down offers for you to hang out with him, won't talk at all, or does his best to disassociate himself from you, you've done all you can. I hope that he has a change of heart. It's a really dedicated and persistent friend who's the friend of an INTJ.

    Hope your stuff works out.
    Thanks so much for your insights. I only know a couple INTJs and they're enigmas, so this post really helps. Your self-awareness really leaves me in awe.
    I know that like most introverts, INTJs need their space/time/distance, and I'm fine with that. I think I'll take your advice, and of course I'll see him again when school starts so it's a good start right there.
    Thanks again.
    I bet they'll put something in the air tonight, just to light your face.

  10. #20

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    I'm a shy INTJ, and I've come to realize that introversion and shyness are not the same thing, so my viewpoint may not be universal. Still, here's my two cents...

    First of all, pay more attention to what he says than his body language. We put thought into our words and have no idea what kind of physical signs we're sending out. If he says he likes you but doesn't give you body language to match, believe him anyway.

    Second, if he was hanging out with you very frequently like you say, that's an excellent sign. It's an effort for us to be social on a regular basis, and if he's making that effort consistently, it's a sign he likes you a lot.

    Third, it's frustrating, but we DO tend to disappear for a while. Sometimes I go weeks without talking to any of my friends, and I don't really think anything of it. I know, however that that alarms a lot of people and makes them think I don't like them or value them. One of my ex-girlfriends called it "going into my cave". I'm not going to defend this behavior, because it can be hurtful, but that's just the way it is. He may be mulling over what he truly thinks of you and whether he wants to make a commitment to you. It's hard to say. But he could show up again out of the blue like nothing ever happened.

    It takes some effort to become intimate with an INTJ, especially a shy one. It requires patience and trust. But I can tell you this much...once you're in with us, you're IN. We are dedicated, loyal and loving to those we've been able to truly connect with.

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