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  1. #11
    He who laughs
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robopop View Post
    It would probably be more like a fail of an ISFJ, both share Ti and Si.
    No actually Myers-Briggs gives an example the book "Gifts Differing" on a woman that takes the test for her husband and comes up with ISTJ but really the husband is really an underdeveloped ISFJ that has a lack of developement of Fe. ISFJ functions would be Si Fe Ti Ne.

    So for an INTP which is Ti Ne Si Fe an INTP could exhibit basic traits of an ISTP without looking at that persons jungian functions.

    Edit: But this is how I understand it from an Myers-Briggs pov. Not Lenore Thomson

  2. #12
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    Yes. This can happen. I believe that I come off very ISTJ if I'm with a group of new people (or with 1 new person) and I don't feel comfortable using Ne with that person. There are a lot of people who find Ne to be a bit whacky and if I'm around people who I'm not super familiar with and who I know I can't really use Ne successfully with, then I just rely on Ti and Si.

    I've known people for months and never used much Ne around them. And then one day I'll do something or say something "out there" that is very Ne and they're shocked. One friend (ISFJ) even said something like, "You always seemed so stable (LOL), responsible (LOL), and like you weren't much of a risk taker. But, I'm finding out that you have an unstable, risk taking side to you." Yes, I suppose I do, but a lot of it is just Ne that she hadn't seen before.

    The other thing I would add is that when I do this, I don't think I make a "bad" (or failure) version of an ISTJ. I can pull it off quite well - and be very organized, responsible-seeming, non-risk taking, etc. I can do it successfully. I just find that it bores the living daylights out of me after about one week. I have to be able to "break the chains" and take some risks and talk about crazy stuff or drive to the airport on a whim on a Wednesday night and fly to Vegas with no planning whatsoever. Doing something spontaneous like that is not "irresponsible", as my ISFJ friend would have me believe. It's just not something she would do, therefore, she slaps a negative label on it. I just know that when I stay in ISTJ mode for extended periods of time, I start to feel very suffocated, frustrated, and bored to tears. I feel very "inside the box". I have to let Ne loose from time to time and it's like a huge breath of fresh air. The more "free" that Ne is to roam, the better I feel.
    That's interesting, and kind of what I expected to hear when I first started this thread. It's cool that you can mimic a non-fail version of an ISTJ. I can't.

    Quote Originally Posted by proximo View Post
    At first few meetings, I often can't tell ISTJ and INTP apart anyway. They're both pretty taciturn, both suspicious/disapproving (or seem it) about displays of enthusiasm or high spirits, both won't just "let go", both pedantic as hell... the similarities are more obvious than the differences, which you have to get to know them for quite a while to be able to actually observe.
    So both of you seem to be saying that INTPs can seem ISTJ anyway, even without the unhealthiness of the Ti-Si loop.
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  3. #13
    Senior Member Robopop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Yeah, the same functions are there with ISFJ. But in terms of appearance, I think that a Ti-Si INTP is going to seem (with their boring, pedantic, and strictly logical demeanor) more like an ISTJ than an ISFJ. Have you had experience with an ISFJ-seeming INTP, though? Or is your comment purely hypothetical? I imagine the latter is the case, since you used the term "probably," but I thought I'd ask to be sure.
    Yeah, it was hypothetical, I imagined an ISFJ in a Si Ti loop, wouldn't that kind of seem similar to an INTP in a Ti Si loop, but it that would be an unhealthy ISFJ.
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  4. #14
    Senior Member BlueGray's Avatar
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    So both of you seem to be saying that INTPs can seem ISTJ anyway, even without the unhealthiness of the Ti-Si loop.
    I would agree with them. The ISTJs I know are rather similar in terms of conclusions/out ward appearance to me and other INTPs. Listening to explanations will show very different things though. Outwardly the biggest clue would be that the ISTJ is faster at supporting some new idea.
    Ne > Ti > Si >> Te > Se >> Fe > Fi > Ni
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  5. #15
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proximo View Post
    At first few meetings, I often can't tell ISTJ and INTP apart anyway. They're both pretty taciturn, both suspicious/disapproving (or seem it) about displays of enthusiasm or high spirits, both won't just "let go", both pedantic as hell... the similarities are more obvious than the differences, which you have to get to know them for quite a while to be able to actually observe.
    I agree. They come off very much the same on the surface. But, once you are able to crack the outer shells and get to know them more intimately, the 2 types are VERY different.

    One of my best friends is ISTJ and to our acquaintances, they think we are a lot alike. But the people who know both of us really well, know that we are extremely different. I'm spontaneous, take things more day-to-day (rather than planning everything out). He's very tight (maybe "responsible" is the politically correct word) with his money, I'm more of a free spender who doesn't count pennies.

    He'll call me a week in advance and say, "do you want to go with me to "X" at 2pm next Saturday? And I'll say, "Sure. Do you want to grab some lunch beforehand?" He'll say, "Yeah, that might work. Let me check my schedule here. Yeah, we could go to "this restaurant" at 1pm and then we'll have just enough time to get to "X" by 2pm. Which means I should pick you up at about 12:30pm. Does that work for you?" I'm thinking, "Yeah, whatever. 12:30, 11:45, 2:15. Whatever!" But, I do like the fact that he lays everything out there in a neat fashion. He and I don't often have miscommunications. Everything is well-understood because he lays it out there so precisely. I can handle that and respect it even if I find it a bit "dry".

    It's better than trying to get together with my ENFP friend. I say I'll pick her up at 11:30 and when I show up, she runs out and gives me 5 excuses for why she needs 20 more minutes to get ready. Now that's irritating! Now you're wasting my time. The ISTJ never does that.
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


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  6. #16
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueGray View Post
    I would agree with them. The ISTJs I know are rather similar in terms of conclusions/out ward appearance to me and other INTPs. Listening to explanations will show very different things though. Outwardly the biggest clue would be that the ISTJ is faster at supporting some new idea.
    A little counterintuitive, methinks.
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  7. #17
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    So both of you seem to be saying that INTPs can seem ISTJ anyway, even without the unhealthiness of the Ti-Si loop.
    Yeah. If you take Ne out of the equation (meaning the INTP is suppressing it for some reason), the 2 types become pretty similar.

    When Ne is thrown back into the mix, however, the 2 types are VERY different. Ne changes the whole equation because it's crazy like that.
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

  8. #18
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    A little counterintuitive, methinks.
    Yeah, I thought the same thing. Maybe the BlueGray meant to say that INTP's will more easily accept a new idea?
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

  9. #19
    Senior Member Robopop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proximo View Post
    At first few meetings, I often can't tell ISTJ and INTP apart anyway. They're both pretty taciturn, both suspicious/disapproving (or seem it) about displays of enthusiasm or high spirits, both won't just "let go", both pedantic as hell... the similarities are more obvious than the differences, which you have to get to know them for quite a while to be able to actually observe.
    I feel VERY different from ISTJs I know, INTPs are far more similar function wise to ENTPs, ISTPs, and INFPs than they are to ISTJs.
    Come on, we're lighter than that(when healthy).
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  10. #20
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    Yeah. If you take Ne out of the equation (meaning the INTP is suppressing it for some reason), the 2 types become pretty similar.

    When Ne is thrown back into the mix, however, the 2 types are VERY different. Ne changes the whole equation because it's crazy like that.
    So either the INTP is suppressing their Ne because they're in a socially uncomfortable setting, or they're "unhealthy," and said suppression makes them look similar to an ISTJ. Otherwise they look pretty different, yes? So I guess an INTP would not really look ISTJ consistently for sustained periods of time, unless they only appeared to the viewer in superficial social contexts in which they were uncomfortable.

    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    Yeah, I thought the same thing. Maybe the BlueGray meant to say that INTP's will more easily accept a new idea?
    Yeah, I think that's probably what he meant to say.
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