[Fe] Fe

[Lucky_Rabbit]

I juist had this crazy thought.. according to wikipedia "Fe responds to the explicit (and implicit) wants of others, and may even create an internal conflict between the subject’s own needs and the desire to meet the needs of others". I think that when an ESFJ is a kid, and they r being nice to ppl just by their pure nature ppl give them stuff, and the Ne is fuel with this knowledge that if u nice You'll get wat u want, and when they got upset ppl would try to make them feel better, so they always interpreted that as " people want to give me stuff (implicit wants of others). their not selfish or greedy they hav just been fueled the wrong information. I think it also translate to the INTP in a very limited and undeveloped dose and thats why we detach from ppl early on in life... Sorry if this is scatter brained i just thought of it and i needed to say something b4 i forgot

 

[JocktheMotie]

Fe for younger INTPs will most likely exhibit itself negatively in the majority of situations. This means that they can:

• Be hypersensitive to the social and emotional demands of the people around them.
  
• Feel "under attack" by those demands.
  
• Be oblivious to those demands.
  
• Be unsure of how to interpret and incorporate those demands into their Ti worldview. They'll label certain overtures as "shallow and pointless" or when trying to help another, offer some sort of universal, impersonal "truth" and then be frustrated that it wasn't what that person was looking for.

If you figure it out, let me know, because I still suck balls.

 

[Craft]

I think that when an ESFJ is a kid, and they r being nice to ppl just by their pure nature ppl give them stuff,

If view is "you *should* be "nice" and people *should* give "nice" things", it is Fe. Etiquette.

If it is mainly "if 'act' nice, you should be given things", it is Ti. Logic.

and the Ne is fuel with this knowledge that if u nice You'll get wat u want, and when they got upset ppl would try to make them feel better, so they always interpreted that as " people want to give me stuff (implicit wants of others). their not selfish or greedy they hav just been fueled the wrong information.

Ne is only concentrated on interpreting/seeing/creating possibilities. You are either talking about Ti or Fe----in combination with Si. We can have *wrong* Ti and *wrong* Fe. INTP's have often have *wrong* Fe and ESFJ have *correct* Fe, vice versa.

I think it also translate to the INTP in a very limited and undeveloped dose and thats why we detach from ppl early on in life... Sorry if this is scatter brained i just thought of it and i needed to say something b4 i forgot

It's a good thought. We are detached and underdeveloped early because Fe is our lowest function in the hierarchy, the most draining process for our cognition. And since it is very "draining"(not exciting, not interesting), it becomes underdeveloped because we have not paid attention to it. So therefore, our "bad Fe" results into:

Fe for younger INTPs will most likely exhibit itself negatively in the majority of situations. This means that they can:

Be hypersensitive to the social and emotional demands of the people around them.
Feel "under attack" by those demands.
Be oblivious to those demands.
Be unsure of how to interpret and incorporate those demands into their Ti worldview. They'll label certain overtures as "shallow and pointless" or when trying to help another, offer some sort of universal, impersonal "truth" and then be frustrated that it wasn't what that person was looking for.

What's confusing me, however, is that, as a kid, I remember being comfortable with my Fe.

 

[Totenkindly]

What's confusing me, however, is that, as a kid, I remember being comfortable with my Fe.

What sort of things were you comfortable with?

My Fe lens was present but distorted, and it did not become nuanced until later in life. Back then, I felt like etiquette was a social obligation and after a certain point was irrational and a nuisance. I also did not perceive that Fe could benefit me, rather than just being an imposition.

 

[Craft]

What sort of things were you comfortable with?

1. I always had an emotion on my face, most often the "smile".

2. Touching was not a problem.

3. Hugging

4. Playing

5. Displaying Emotions

6. Crying

I had all the "normal kid" symptom. Now, I'm just very secluded.

My Fe lens was present but distorted, and it did not become nuanced until later in life. Back then, I felt like etiquette was a social obligation and after a certain point was irrational and a nuisance. I also did not perceive that Fe could benefit me, rather than just being an imposition.

So you think you have developed significantly? I know I haven't.

 

[Poki]

I rely more on Ti. If you do things they will come, but honestly that concept is so engrained in myself that I just do things for others and enjoy what I do. I dont feel like its an obligation, I dont really think about it at all. I dont have any pull to help people though like an Fe dom does, to be nice to everyone, etc.

"Helping" people is where me and my wife really connect, but Dom and Inferior really part ways when it comes to "expectations" or "should". This is where my Ti comes in and logically says "who cares about should be, what is makes logical sense and unless something changes it wont be". But because of Dom Fe drive, my logic doesnt apply because they dont use it so when it comes to them, "what wont be...already is" if that makes sense. There sole way of functioning defies my logic because they take a proactive approach and keep pushing with Fe.

 

[Craft]

I rely more on Ti. If you do things they will come, but honestly that concept is so engrained in myself that I just do things for others and enjoy what I do. I dont feel like its an obligation, I dont really think about it at all. I dont have any pull to help people though like an Fe dom does, to be nice to everyone, etc.

"Helping" people is where me and my wife really connect, but Dom and Inferior really part ways when it comes to "expectations" or "should". This is where my Ti comes in and logically says "who cares about should be, what is makes logical sense and unless something changes it wont be". But because of Dom Fe drive, my logic doesnt apply because they dont use it so when it comes to them, "what wont be...already is" if that makes sense. There sole way of functioning defies my logic because they take a proactive approach and keep pushing with Fe.

So why do you like helping people?

 

[Lucky_Rabbit]

I think young Ti is like young Fi but after years of growth they're goals beciome more apparent.INTP and INFP both become reulsue as years go on and they seem to get along if not understand each other's pain and joy. they both suffer from lost love and being a social outcast, but INTP tend to become recluse after the first lost anf the INFP tend to keep trying but cant seem to get it right. because i have only been reject once as a kid but because of that i never tried again ut my buddy whos an infp just keeps trying. I think the underdevelop Fe triggers a they all love me or they all dont, and the Fi individualize each relationship so there ius not cool kids and outcast, its more like "she's a nice girl but some of her friends need to chill out", where the INTP is more like "oh she hangs out with them, then she must be a bitch too"

 

[proteanmix]

If view is "you *should* be "nice" and people *should* give "nice" things", it is Fe. Etiquette.

If it is mainly "if 'act' nice, you should be given things", it is Ti. Logic.

Please remember that Fe is more comprehensive as a function than etiquette and social niceties. To those who use it healthily and skillfully, those particular aspects one of many paths available to connect and be known by others. Craft touches on emotional expression that is communicated through Fe.

 

[Craft]

I think young Ti is like young Fi but after years of growth they're goals beciome more apparent.INTP and INFP both become reulsue as years go on and they seem to get along if not understand each other's pain and joy. they both suffer from lost love and being a social outcast, but INTP tend to become recluse after the first lost anf the INFP tend to keep trying but cant seem to get it right. because i have only been reject once as a kid but because of that i never tried again ut my buddy whos an infp just keeps trying. I think the underdevelop Fe triggers a they all love me or they all dont, and the Fi individualize each relationship so there ius not cool kids and outcast, its more like "she's a nice girl but some of her friends need to chill out", where the INTP is more like "oh she hangs out with them, then she must be a bitch too"

"Irrational" Fe vs. "Rational" Fi?

Please remember that Fe is more comprehensive as a function than etiquette and social niceties.

What's the most suitable "one word" definition for Fe? social communication and understanding?

To those who use it healthily and skillfully, those particular aspects one of many paths available to connect and be known by others.

Well yes, Did I imply the opposite?

 

[Totenkindly]

So you think you have developed significantly? I know I haven't.

You are probably not an old hag in her 40's like me either.

 

[Craft]

You are probably not an old hag in her 40's like me either.

How much does age play a role in "Fe development"?

 

[proteanmix]

"
What's the most suitable "one word" definition for Fe? social communication and understanding?

I'd say interpersonal.

 

[Totenkindly]

How much does age play a role in "Fe development"?

lol.... you can figure out the answer to these questions, fellow INTP, why are you asking me? You're bright enough to take a guess...

There is no "set schedule."

If you want to be a good student, the more practice you get, the better you become.

If you want to be a good parent, the more practice you get, the better you become.

If you want to be a good writer, the more practice you get, the better you become.

If you want to be a good <fill in the blank>, the more practice you get, the better you become.

Age is correlated indirectly.
The older you are, the more time you've had to practice and learn.
However, there are old people who never practiced or tried, so in their case, age is irrelevant.

The more you practice or engage in the Fe perspective, the more nuanced and deep your view will (hopefully) become.

I'd say interpersonal.

Good word.

1. I always had an emotion on my face, most often the "smile".
2. Touching was not a problem.
3. Hugging
4. Playing
5. Displaying Emotions
6. Crying

I had all the "normal kid" symptom. Now, I'm just very secluded.

Interesting. Although as Protean insinuated, not all of that is Fe or exclusively Fe. Some of it's just "emotion," and some of it can be Thinking directed (such as playing).

 

[Fidelia]

Protean makes a point. Fe is about a lot more than social niceties and saying the right thing. It is being aware of the dynamics within a group and making a decision on what to do based on that dynamic. Sometimes it seems to me that it tends to be preventative rather than reactive in its expression. It gathers information from people through which to compare/contrast and measure one's own feelings and reactions. It gives a base of data to work from when making decisions. It pays attention to how others are feeling (and in its better renditions) tries to put others at ease or help them to show their strongest and best side. That's how I see Fe anyway.

 

[Craft]

I'd say interpersonal.

I see...I think

There is no "set schedule."

If you want to be a good student, the more practice you get, the better you become.

If you want to be a good parent, the more practice you get, the better you become.

If you want to be a good writer, the more practice you get, the better you become.

If you want to be a good <fill in the blank>, the more practice you get, the better you become.

Age is correlated indirectly.
The older you are, the more time you've had to practice and learn.
However, there are old people who never practiced or tried, so in their case, age is irrelevant.

The more you practice or engage in the Fe perspective, the more nuanced and deep your view will (hopefully) become.

I see.

Interesting. Although as Protean insinuated, not all of that is Fe or exclusively Fe. Some of it's just "emotion," and some of it can be Thinking directed (such as playing).

Playing is "Thinking directed"? How so?

"Emotion" is also from Ti? or is it an entirely separate concept? Where is "emotion" in cognitive functions?

 

[Totenkindly]

Playing is "Thinking directed"? How so?

It depends on how you are playing, of course.

"Emotion" is also from Ti? or is it an entirely separate concept? Where is "emotion" in cognitive functions?

Emotion is not a cognitive function, it's a biological feedback/maintenance loop. Feelings just "are" ... and they don't have to "make sense."

Emotion has been loosely associated with F only because feelings often accompany strong values, versus T which naturally detaches the individual from the analysis and thus removes a portion of the emotions as well.

 

[wolfy]

Protean makes a point. Fe is about a lot more than social niceties and saying the right thing. It is being aware of the dynamics within a group and making a decision on what to do based on that dynamic. Sometimes it seems to me that it tends to be preventative rather than reactive in its expression. It gathers information from people through which to compare/contrast and measure one's own feelings and reactions. It gives a base of data to work from when making decisions. It pays attention to how others are feeling (and in its better renditions) tries to put others at ease or help them to show their strongest and best side. That's how I see Fe anyway.

Yeah, it is funny how I really became aware of that when I moved to Japan, out of my own familiar surroundings. I could see objectively how that worked.

 

[Craft]

It depends on how you are playing, of course.

I see.

Emotion is not a cognitive function, it's a biological feedback/maintenance loop. Feelings just "are" ... and they don't have to "make sense."

This is very big to me.

"Biological feedback/maintenance loop ". I do not understand this.

Feelings just "are" ... and they don't have to "make sense."

I'm confused about the quotations. What is the definition of "make sense"? Doesn't "Feelings just are" make sense?

Also how is making sense related to cognitive function?

Emotion has been loosely associated with F only because feelings often accompany strong values, versus T which naturally detaches the individual from the analysis and thus removes a portion of the emotions as well.

Does emotion = feeling?

Is this the only relationship emotion has on (F/T)? Don't we judge based ultimately on emotion? Doesn't emotion define value? Is pain emotion? Why do we value survival? Shouldn't that imply that emotion is in (F/T)?

 

[Kalach]

Emotion has been loosely associated with F only because feelings often accompany strong values, versus T which naturally detaches the individual from the analysis and thus removes a portion of the emotions as well.

Was going to argue against that but then I didn't know how or why. I could only think of two questions instead.

Emotion isn't the raw stuff of values? And, if T detaches, how come it so often works in tandem with F?

(I have totally no idea what those questions mean. I know I used notions of Te/Fi to pose them, and yet, while it may yet end up being so, this does not currently seem inappropriate. Indeed it seems as if it is right to draw attention to another perspective on F and T. And the existence of such a perspective eventually illuminates Fe too by drawing attention to the interrelatedness of functions? Beats me. Does aiming to be righteously inclusive undermine the definitions of opposed functions?....