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  1. #11
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craft View Post
    So you think you have developed significantly? I know I haven't.
    You are probably not an old hag in her 40's like me either.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  2. #12
    Probably Most Brilliant Craft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    You are probably not an old hag in her 40's like me either.
    How much does age play a role in "Fe development"?

  3. #13
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craft View Post
    "
    What's the most suitable "one word" definition for Fe? social communication and understanding?
    I'd say interpersonal.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  4. #14
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craft View Post
    How much does age play a role in "Fe development"?
    lol.... you can figure out the answer to these questions, fellow INTP, why are you asking me? You're bright enough to take a guess...

    There is no "set schedule."

    If you want to be a good student, the more practice you get, the better you become.

    If you want to be a good parent, the more practice you get, the better you become.

    If you want to be a good writer, the more practice you get, the better you become.

    If you want to be a good <fill in the blank>, the more practice you get, the better you become.

    Age is correlated indirectly.
    The older you are, the more time you've had to practice and learn.
    However, there are old people who never practiced or tried, so in their case, age is irrelevant.

    The more you practice or engage in the Fe perspective, the more nuanced and deep your view will (hopefully) become.

    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    I'd say interpersonal.
    Good word.

    Quote Originally Posted by Craft View Post
    1. I always had an emotion on my face, most often the "smile".
    2. Touching was not a problem.
    3. Hugging
    4. Playing
    5. Displaying Emotions
    6. Crying

    I had all the "normal kid" symptom. Now, I'm just very secluded.
    Interesting. Although as Protean insinuated, not all of that is Fe or exclusively Fe. Some of it's just "emotion," and some of it can be Thinking directed (such as playing).
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #15
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    Protean makes a point. Fe is about a lot more than social niceties and saying the right thing. It is being aware of the dynamics within a group and making a decision on what to do based on that dynamic. Sometimes it seems to me that it tends to be preventative rather than reactive in its expression. It gathers information from people through which to compare/contrast and measure one's own feelings and reactions. It gives a base of data to work from when making decisions. It pays attention to how others are feeling (and in its better renditions) tries to put others at ease or help them to show their strongest and best side. That's how I see Fe anyway.

  6. #16
    Probably Most Brilliant Craft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    I'd say interpersonal.
    I see...I think
    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post

    There is no "set schedule."

    If you want to be a good student, the more practice you get, the better you become.

    If you want to be a good parent, the more practice you get, the better you become.

    If you want to be a good writer, the more practice you get, the better you become.

    If you want to be a good <fill in the blank>, the more practice you get, the better you become.

    Age is correlated indirectly.
    The older you are, the more time you've had to practice and learn.
    However, there are old people who never practiced or tried, so in their case, age is irrelevant.

    The more you practice or engage in the Fe perspective, the more nuanced and deep your view will (hopefully) become.
    I see.


    Interesting. Although as Protean insinuated, not all of that is Fe or exclusively Fe. Some of it's just "emotion," and some of it can be Thinking directed (such as playing).
    Playing is "Thinking directed"? How so?

    "Emotion" is also from Ti? or is it an entirely separate concept? Where is "emotion" in cognitive functions?

  7. #17
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craft View Post
    Playing is "Thinking directed"? How so?
    It depends on how you are playing, of course.

    "Emotion" is also from Ti? or is it an entirely separate concept? Where is "emotion" in cognitive functions?
    Emotion is not a cognitive function, it's a biological feedback/maintenance loop. Feelings just "are" ... and they don't have to "make sense."

    Emotion has been loosely associated with F only because feelings often accompany strong values, versus T which naturally detaches the individual from the analysis and thus removes a portion of the emotions as well.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    Protean makes a point. Fe is about a lot more than social niceties and saying the right thing. It is being aware of the dynamics within a group and making a decision on what to do based on that dynamic. Sometimes it seems to me that it tends to be preventative rather than reactive in its expression. It gathers information from people through which to compare/contrast and measure one's own feelings and reactions. It gives a base of data to work from when making decisions. It pays attention to how others are feeling (and in its better renditions) tries to put others at ease or help them to show their strongest and best side. That's how I see Fe anyway.
    Yeah, it is funny how I really became aware of that when I moved to Japan, out of my own familiar surroundings. I could see objectively how that worked.

  9. #19
    Probably Most Brilliant Craft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    It depends on how you are playing, of course.
    I see.



    Emotion is not a cognitive function, it's a biological feedback/maintenance loop. Feelings just "are" ... and they don't have to "make sense."
    This is very big to me.

    "Biological feedback/maintenance loop ". I do not understand this.

    Feelings just "are" ... and they don't have to "make sense."
    I'm confused about the quotations. What is the definition of "make sense"? Doesn't "Feelings just are" make sense?

    Also how is making sense related to cognitive function?

    Emotion has been loosely associated with F only because feelings often accompany strong values, versus T which naturally detaches the individual from the analysis and thus removes a portion of the emotions as well.
    Does emotion = feeling?

    Is this the only relationship emotion has on (F/T)? Don't we judge based ultimately on emotion? Doesn't emotion define value? Is pain emotion? Why do we value survival? Shouldn't that imply that emotion is in (F/T)?

  10. #20
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Emotion has been loosely associated with F only because feelings often accompany strong values, versus T which naturally detaches the individual from the analysis and thus removes a portion of the emotions as well.
    Was going to argue against that but then I didn't know how or why. I could only think of two questions instead.

    Emotion isn't the raw stuff of values? And, if T detaches, how come it so often works in tandem with F?

    (I have totally no idea what those questions mean. I know I used notions of Te/Fi to pose them, and yet, while it may yet end up being so, this does not currently seem inappropriate. Indeed it seems as if it is right to draw attention to another perspective on F and T. And the existence of such a perspective eventually illuminates Fe too by drawing attention to the interrelatedness of functions? Beats me. Does aiming to be righteously inclusive undermine the definitions of opposed functions?....
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

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