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  1. #21
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reflection View Post
    To be honest, Fluff, sometimes I'm jealous of sensors. And I'm very critical of myself. It's funny how I can really dislike aloofness in other people, when I'm like that a lot.
    It's good to be critical of yourself, although it's also good to relativate it, rather than feeling jealous of sensors.

    I'm perfectly fine with going to my car and back into the house about 3 to 4 times in the morning because I keep forgetting something, as long as I leave without forgetting something in the end. Just have to try and contain it in some situations so it doesn't become a problem when it really matters.

    At work I've developped a very chameleon J mode in which I think very straight forward and through patterns. It can be tiring, but it's effective. That said, I needed time to develop that though. I had quite some problems fitting into business life at first. I loved creating ideas and starting projects, but I completely sucked at doing menial chores like administration stuff. It's a little give and take, but I've adjusted so I can function just like a J would on the workfloor. That said, outside of work, it almost seems as if though my Pness has become even greater than it was before. It's like I need to recover from using J for a period of time. That process is quite interesting.


    edit: Hi, Sas! Good to see you doing well.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  2. #22
    Senior Member Saslou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post

    At work I've developped a very chameleon J mode in which I think very straight forward and through patterns. It can be tiring, but it's effective. That said, I needed time to develop that though. I had quite some problems fitting into business life at first. I loved creating ideas and starting projects, but I completely sucked at doing menial chores like administration stuff. It's a little give and take, but I've adjusted so I can function just like a J would on the workfloor. That said, outside of work, it almost seems as if though my Pness has become even greater than it was before. It's like I need to recover from using J for a period of time. That process is quite interesting.


    edit: Hi, Sas! Good to see you doing well.
    Hello Darling

    This is where the S and N can become good business partners via utilizing strengths. You are good at creating and starting the ideas .. I am great at following them through .. As long as we remain business partners and focused then all's good in the long run. Hopefully. Lol

    EDIT - Can i be a sensor who is idealistic?
    “I made you take time to look at what I saw and when you took time to really notice my flower, you hung all your associations with flowers on my flower and you write about my flower as if I think and see what you think and see—and I don't.”
    ― Georgia O'Keeffe

  3. #23
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    Default sensors vs intuitives

    What do sensors have that intuitives lack exactly? Seems to me even a starfish is able to sense its environment, while intuition is a primarily mental task that requires grey matter. I may be biased. Show me the light.

  4. #24
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    Holy crap lady, you've amazingly enough succeeded in making me want to hear points 4 through 6! Let's see... what is the greatest insight in the human mind or single most enlightening pattern you've learned from reading this so called comparative literature?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevo View Post
    I am shocked by this. Do you really think that people can't see these things? I've always wondered what the true difference between intuitives and sensors are but if it's really that profound then I don't know what to think. I can't even try to put myself in the shoes of someone who cannot conceptualize these things. How do they live?
    Stevo, you almost make me want to test this on a non-NT. But I know it's going to be a real challenge to make them understand the task, so I give up!!

    BTW I can put myself in the shoes of someone who can't conceptualize these things but not in the shoes of someone who can and still doesn't see their importance. The latter shoes are too freaking uncomfortable.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by saslou View Post
    EDIT - Can i be a sensor who is idealistic?
    No you may not. It's forbidden by the Rules. Please focus your attention on this site's color scheme or whatever you were doing before you got this crazy idea

  7. #27
    Senior Member Saslou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ocean View Post
    What do sensors have that intuitives lack exactly?
    That has to be answered by the individual i suppose. How would i know what you lack since i am only me and not you.

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean View Post
    No you may not. It's forbidden by the Rules. Please focus your attention on this site's color scheme or whatever you were doing before you got this crazy idea
    Well i only conform between the hours of 9am - 5pm and then i still get my point across.

    Rules are (on occasions) meant to be broken
    “I made you take time to look at what I saw and when you took time to really notice my flower, you hung all your associations with flowers on my flower and you write about my flower as if I think and see what you think and see—and I don't.”
    ― Georgia O'Keeffe

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by ocean View Post
    What do sensors have that intuitives lack exactly? Seems to me even a starfish is able to sense its environment, while intuition is a primarily mental task that requires grey matter. I may be biased. Show me the light.
    How about the ability to enjoy trivial pleasures and to lead a superficially enjoyable life? Of course, some intuitives might also be capable of this, but the average sensor is considerably more adept at it. To present a stereotypical difference, intuitives have a tendency to question many aspects of reality (physical, political, psychological, etc.), perhaps delighting in its positive aspects and being disheartened at its seamy side, while sensors can accept it as it is: they are impervious to the shadows lurking in the background of existence that can torment intuitives. However, this difference may not be as pronounced among sensors and intuitives as it is among the intelligent and unintelligent; in general, happiness with life decreases with increasing intelligence. While the intelligent may have something their less cerebral counterparts lack, what they have may amount to little more than a mill-stone around their necks.

  9. #29
    He who laughs
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    Quote Originally Posted by ocean View Post
    What do sensors have that intuitives lack exactly? Seems to me even a starfish is able to sense its environment, while intuition is a primarily mental task that requires grey matter. I may be biased. Show me the light.
    if you think Sensing is not a mental process then Im sorry to inform you but it is. Jung called Intuition and Sensing as irrational functions, but still its more than just being able to sense one enviroment, its also understanding where one fits in the physical enviroment.


    Qoute from this website The Jung Lexicon by Jungian analyst, Daryl Sharp, Toronto


    Sensation. The psychological function that perceives immediate reality through the physical senses. (Compare intuition.)

    "An attitude that seeks to do justice to the unconscious as well as to one's fellow human beings cannot possibly rest on knowledge alone, in so far as this consists merely of thinking and intuition. It would lack the function that perceives values, i.e., feeling, as well as the fonction du réel, i.e., sensation, the sensible perception of reality. ["the Psychology of the Transference," CW 16, par.486.]"

    In Jung's model of typology, sensation, like intuition, is an irrational function. It perceives concrete facts, with no judgment of what they mean or what they are worth.

    "Sensation must be strictly differentiated from feeling, since the latter is an entirely different process, although it may associate itself with sensation as "feeling-tone." Sensation is related not only to external stimuli but to inner ones, i.e., to changes in the internal organic processes.[Definitions," CW 6, par. 792.]"

    Jung also distinguished between sensuous or concrete sensation and abstract sensation.

    "Concrete sensation never appears in "pure" form, but is always mix-ed up with ideas, feelings, thoughts. . . . The concrete sensation of a flower . . . conveys a perception not only of the flower as such, but also of the stem, leaves, habitat, and so on. It is also instantly mingled with feeling of pleasure or dislike which the sight of the flower evokes, or with simultaneous olfactory perceptions, or with thoughts about its botanical classification, etc. But abstract sensation immediately picks out the most salient sensuous attribute of the flower, its brilliant redness, for instance, and makes this the sole or at least the principle content of consciousness, entirely detached from all other admixtures. Abstract sensation is found chiefly among artists. Like every abstraction, it is a product of functional differentiation."
    I like this last quote by Jung best. Because that whole abstract sensation is something that I as an Intuitive lacks. Or atleast the physical sensation of abstracting. I can only do it so much, but never like my sensation friends. Like when we are in the woods, they have to explain to me the abstractness of a flowers beauty for instance, how amazing the trees look like. Im not that well trained in seeing the obvious sensational abstractions as they are. (eventhough I think it unfortunate Jung calls it abstractions, when that word is so understood as an intuitive most prominent appliance to the enviroment)

  10. #30
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    slowriot: interesting. Capturing the essence of something is a skill typical of artists (and not useful to much else other than art?)

    I had an ISFP girlfriend who was so bad at rational thinking I tried to communicate with her in metaphors. I asked her, put one visual concept on the left, one on the right, and then decide a word for how you link them together.

    She came up with Rain and Sad and tied them with Tears. That would *not* have occurred to me.

    But it seems almost a trivial "skill" to possess in comparison with the ability to scan possibilities, tap from ideas in the present, the future...

    Surely there's got to be something more to sensors than capturing the essence of flowers, if indeed they have one brain center that's more developed than in Ns. Otherwise you could almost postulate they lack development of intuition, and attention must focus on the external world to keep the brain busy, and so their "essence capturing" is a side effect of being dumb and staring at things.

    To play the devil's advocate, maybe they're just saving resources and so they didn't develop some neural circuitry because they had an easy life. How many S people were born in poverty and conflict vs how many Ns?

    Maybe they're just put on earth to slow down ideology based cults and socialism!

    Once again sensors, what is it that intuitive people normally LACK in your view? (If you even pay attention to such things... maybe we do lack something but you guys don't notice!! )

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