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[ENTJ] ENTJ achilles heel?

INTPness

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I have a good ENTJ friend and I noticed something yesterday. He and I were asked to help someone move some large household items. He had a "meeting" planned at a certain time and so he couldn't stay and help as long as I could. Well, as time drew closer to his meeting, he became consumed by his pre-planned schedule. He was looking at his watch every 30 seconds. He literally could not get it off of his mind. It was to the point to where I wanted to just say, "Just leave. You're basically being ineffective NOW because you're thinking so much about 1 hour from now. You're really just getting in the way." I found it rather childish to be honest.

People bemoan the P function, saying that it's lazy and can't keep a schedule and it's flaky, etc, etc. I don't disagree that we can sometimes (if left unchecked) fall into these habits. But, one of the strengths of P, is that it is flexible. It goes with the flow. When life throws a curveball of sorts or when events/schedules change (which they do every single day), we don't panic or freak out. We just calmly go with the flow and play with the hand that is being dealt.

So, this isn't a rant on why P's are better than J's. I have a couple ENTJ friends who I think are great. I'm just wondering from the ENTJ perspective if this type of thing is something that you struggle with or get easily frustrated with. I've also had an ISTP tell me about a different ENTJ that, "he has everything planned out perfectly, and if things don't go according to his plan, then he freaks out and doesn't know what to do." That doesn't mean it's true, but it does mean that this is the way the ISTP is perceiving his reactions.

Thoughts?
 

INTPness

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By the way, I'm not saying that he shouldn't have gone to his meeting. By all means, work up until it's time to leave and then dismiss yourself and go to the meeting. I'm talking about the stress level that it was creating for him. The incessant watch-checking, and the "ZOMG, what am I gonna do?" look that he seemed to have, leaving him pretty ineffective in the moment.
 
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I'm just wondering from the ENTJ perspective if this type of thing is something that you struggle with or get easily frustrated with. I've also had an ISTP tell me about a different ENTJ that, "he has everything planned out perfectly, and if things don't go according to his plan, then he freaks out and doesn't know what to do." That doesn't mean it's true, but it does mean that this is the way the ISTP is perceiving his reactions.

Thoughts?

For me it's true.

I can become very down, inflexible and rather kill the whole plan instead of trying to get it to work, according to the new conditions. This usually happens when I have everything perfectly planed and I've got something personal, on the line, that I really want to achieve. Like I've planed to meet someone, and for that to happen, everything else needs to fall in line, according to plan. And if something, one details, fucks that up, it feels like a got a gun-shot in my stomach.

I think it's also a little bit because I'm so used to getting my way, that I get somewhat shocked when things don't. I can become unreasonable and childish.
 

FDG

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Yeah, I could see myself doing something like that. I don't like to have a really tight schedule exactly for that reason: I'd always be panicking about leaving on time for the next task. Perhaps that meeting was particularly important, but actually if I was somewhat stressed I could do that even with a relatively minor event.

Although, I think it's not true that "I (We ENTJs, maybe I can generalize) don't know what to do" - it's easy to know what to do, just do what you had planned later, or cancel...I think it's just that "I'd prefer to do as I thought I would have done".
 

Lark

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ENTJs have no achilles heel.

That sounds like a time management thing and priorities rather than a type issue. Slavish adherence to preplanned or scheduled things isnt necessarily ENTJ it could be a compulsive or adult anxiety thing, more other psychology, perhaps he's not really ENTJ but is trying hard to conform to ENTJness and struggling with it.
 

slowriot

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ENTJs have no achilles heel.

That sounds like a time management thing and priorities rather than a type issue. Slavish adherence to preplanned or scheduled things isnt necessarily ENTJ it could be a compulsive or adult anxiety thing, more other psychology, perhaps he's not really ENTJ but is trying hard to conform to ENTJness and struggling with it.

Interesting. So you go with the flow when you are met with a new situation? Do you put other interests that may come in the moment higher than what you have planned out?

I do agree that its something all types can do, but what is the frequency of said. I personally am structured in my inner world, but the outside world is a big mess. And I think thats more the ENTJ achilles heal. That they want structure in both places and cant priorities well because of that.
 

JustHer

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But, one of the strengths of P, is that it is flexible. It goes with the flow. When life throws a curveball of sorts or when events/schedules change (which they do every single day), we don't panic or freak out.

It's not exactly characteristic of J types to freak out either.

I'm talking about the stress level that it was creating for him. The incessant watch-checking, and the "ZOMG, what am I gonna do?" look that he seemed to have, leaving him pretty ineffective in the moment.

Why do you assume he was stressed?
 

Neobick

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ENTJs have no achilles heel.

That sounds like a time management thing and priorities rather than a type issue. Slavish adherence to preplanned or scheduled things isnt necessarily ENTJ it could be a compulsive or adult anxiety thing, more other psychology, perhaps he's not really ENTJ but is trying hard to conform to ENTJness and struggling with it.

Only a fool doesnt see his weaknesses.

Type-based or personal. No one is perfect, and if one are, they wouldnt waste time on a forum.
 
T

ThatGirl

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That only time I could see this happening is when I have my day perfectly planned out then get suckered into incorporating a favor for someone. I will be there, but also make it known that I had other things to do which are more important.

Usually I have no priority in the favor at hand and can become annoyed by the fact I am doing something I don't consider important or necessary rather than getting ready for something I do.
 

JHBowden

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Lark has it right. I rarely expect events to unfold according to preconceived ideas, and am ready and comfortable with improvising if need be. There is an infinity of possible futures, some more probable than others, and the very fact that they're probable means there are no guarantees for anything.

Uncertainty is not only part of life, but desirable part of it. A sweatshop worker in a third-world country works 14 hour days, day in and day out, though many of us would go mad under such a predictable scheme. I need unstable conditions dammit!
 

Lark

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Interesting. So you go with the flow when you are met with a new situation? Do you put other interests that may come in the moment higher than what you have planned out?

I do agree that its something all types can do, but what is the frequency of said. I personally am structured in my inner world, but the outside world is a big mess. And I think thats more the ENTJ achilles heal. That they want structure in both places and cant priorities well because of that.

What you're describing is an OCD like adherence to schedules, that's no ENTJ anymore than a completely chaotic lifestyle is inherently ISPF, this is one of the reasons why I kind of like the enneagram, they give personas, opposites and also opposites which are the persona in crisis or deteriorating.

There are levels of schedules or routines or planning, anyone with a capacity to be reflective, both on action and in action can prioritise and reprioritise, make adjustments with the ultimate goals in mind. Schedules and planning should be utilitarian to an ENTJ serving their greater goals. Making them more than this, especially behaving in the manner you described I reckon belies, in reality, an objective lack of ability to plan or over reliance on a plan.

You cant rely totally on spontaneity but neither can you do the opposite.
 

Little_Sticks

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ENTJs have no achilles heel.
...

:rolli::rolli:

Next time use some of this lubricant instead of going dry.

Vaseline.jpg
 

slowriot

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What you're describing is an OCD like adherence to schedules, that's no ENTJ anymore than a completely chaotic lifestyle is inherently ISPF, this is one of the reasons why I kind of like the enneagram, they give personas, opposites and also opposites which are the persona in crisis or deteriorating.

There are levels of schedules or routines or planning, anyone with a capacity to be reflective, both on action and in action can prioritise and reprioritise, make adjustments with the ultimate goals in mind. Schedules and planning should be utilitarian to an ENTJ serving their greater goals. Making them more than this, especially behaving in the manner you described I reckon belies, in reality, an objective lack of ability to plan or over reliance on a plan.

You cant rely totally on spontaneity but neither can you do the opposite.

I can agree with that. But you are taking what Im saying to the extreme if you mean my description of ENTJ is just OCD. Im was generalizing I agree but still...
 

Frank

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This sounds fairly accurate to me. Just a few months ago when a project that I had planned didn't work out because somebody had to back out, it threw me into a funky almost depression like state for a week or so. I eventually adjusted my plans but made a mental note that I definitely need to work on my adaptability and not be so thrown off by major monkey wrenches.

With smaller things like your friends situation I probably behave in a similar manner. If something is keeping me from what I need to be doing I will begin to feel the stress. Like FDG said I try and not commit to to tight of a schedule to avoid this.
 

Uytuun

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He had a "meeting" planned at a certain time and so he couldn't stay and help as long as I could. Well, as time drew closer to his meeting, he became consumed by his pre-planned schedule. He was looking at his watch every 30 seconds. He literally could not get it off of his mind. It was to the point to where I wanted to just say, "Just leave. You're basically being ineffective NOW because you're thinking so much about 1 hour from now. You're really just getting in the way." I found it rather childish to be honest.

I get like this when I am really stressed out. Say that I'm working towards a huge life-changing deadline and I have to meet you to move furniture and I have to make sure I catch the train on time to get back and finish the deadline stuff...I will start to get...panicky and scattered and focussed on being on time for the train...I won't really be that present that last 30 min. Having a really detailed schedule is a lot more stressful than having a vague schedule or none at all. When something doesn't go according to plan, I improvise just fine, so I'm more immobilised by the plan than the lack thereof sometimes.

In that situation the base stress never leaves. You'd think that you can compartmentalise and just move furniture and then pick up where you left with the first task, but when there is stress to begin with your (or mine at least) perspective can really narrow. It is irrational.
 

Billy

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Sounds like he got out of having to do much, I know an ENTJ who does the same trick. he shows up for the 1st 10 minutes and the last 30 and takes all the credit when we're done.
 

FDG

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Sounds like he got out of having to do much, I know an ENTJ who does the same trick. he shows up for the 1st 10 minutes and the last 30 and takes all the credit when we're done.

I really don't think this is the explanation...
 

Lark

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I can agree with that. But you are taking what Im saying to the extreme if you mean my description of ENTJ is just OCD. Im was generalizing I agree but still...

Oh no, I think its fair to generalise, although perhaps a better, or different, way of framing it (which I think is better) would be of some advantage or opportunity which an ENTJ passes up because their "vision thing" or "grand designs" provide a greater incentive.

Perhaps that's no clearer but if I personalise it, I cant really have a good time "California dreaming", sitting on a beach because the weather was good when I got up isnt the sort of spontaneous thing I'd do, downshifting for an easier, more flexible hours work life equally wouldnt appeal even if I could randomly party more now and think about saving, putting off for a rainy day or whatever later.
 

proximo

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Yeah well, I'd just say that was a combination of J tendency to like things planned out, and then just this person having bad time management.

A J can be as anal as they like about their schedules without it affecting anyone else adversely, as long as they schedule REALISTICALLY, and leave plenty of "margin for error" time around each item. That way, if things take a little longer than expected, there's no big panic.

I don't schedule things particularly, and I'm not a J, but I would get stressed if I was doing something with a bunch of people who knew I had somewhere I had to be at a certain time after this thing, and yet they were dawdling and wasting time, knowing this would mean I'd either have to leave the task undone (something I don't like), or let someone else down (which I also don't like). I try to manage my time so that this doesn't happen, by not giving key roles to anyone I don't trust to respect other people's commitments.
 
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