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  1. #11
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slowriot View Post
    Interesting. So you go with the flow when you are met with a new situation? Do you put other interests that may come in the moment higher than what you have planned out?

    I do agree that its something all types can do, but what is the frequency of said. I personally am structured in my inner world, but the outside world is a big mess. And I think thats more the ENTJ achilles heal. That they want structure in both places and cant priorities well because of that.
    What you're describing is an OCD like adherence to schedules, that's no ENTJ anymore than a completely chaotic lifestyle is inherently ISPF, this is one of the reasons why I kind of like the enneagram, they give personas, opposites and also opposites which are the persona in crisis or deteriorating.

    There are levels of schedules or routines or planning, anyone with a capacity to be reflective, both on action and in action can prioritise and reprioritise, make adjustments with the ultimate goals in mind. Schedules and planning should be utilitarian to an ENTJ serving their greater goals. Making them more than this, especially behaving in the manner you described I reckon belies, in reality, an objective lack of ability to plan or over reliance on a plan.

    You cant rely totally on spontaneity but neither can you do the opposite.

  2. #12
    Senior Member Little_Sticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    ENTJs have no achilles heel.
    ...
    :rolli::rolli:

    Next time use some of this lubricant instead of going dry.


  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    What you're describing is an OCD like adherence to schedules, that's no ENTJ anymore than a completely chaotic lifestyle is inherently ISPF, this is one of the reasons why I kind of like the enneagram, they give personas, opposites and also opposites which are the persona in crisis or deteriorating.

    There are levels of schedules or routines or planning, anyone with a capacity to be reflective, both on action and in action can prioritise and reprioritise, make adjustments with the ultimate goals in mind. Schedules and planning should be utilitarian to an ENTJ serving their greater goals. Making them more than this, especially behaving in the manner you described I reckon belies, in reality, an objective lack of ability to plan or over reliance on a plan.

    You cant rely totally on spontaneity but neither can you do the opposite.
    I can agree with that. But you are taking what Im saying to the extreme if you mean my description of ENTJ is just OCD. Im was generalizing I agree but still...

  4. #14
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    This sounds fairly accurate to me. Just a few months ago when a project that I had planned didn't work out because somebody had to back out, it threw me into a funky almost depression like state for a week or so. I eventually adjusted my plans but made a mental note that I definitely need to work on my adaptability and not be so thrown off by major monkey wrenches.

    With smaller things like your friends situation I probably behave in a similar manner. If something is keeping me from what I need to be doing I will begin to feel the stress. Like FDG said I try and not commit to to tight of a schedule to avoid this.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Uytuun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    He had a "meeting" planned at a certain time and so he couldn't stay and help as long as I could. Well, as time drew closer to his meeting, he became consumed by his pre-planned schedule. He was looking at his watch every 30 seconds. He literally could not get it off of his mind. It was to the point to where I wanted to just say, "Just leave. You're basically being ineffective NOW because you're thinking so much about 1 hour from now. You're really just getting in the way." I found it rather childish to be honest.
    I get like this when I am really stressed out. Say that I'm working towards a huge life-changing deadline and I have to meet you to move furniture and I have to make sure I catch the train on time to get back and finish the deadline stuff...I will start to get...panicky and scattered and focussed on being on time for the train...I won't really be that present that last 30 min. Having a really detailed schedule is a lot more stressful than having a vague schedule or none at all. When something doesn't go according to plan, I improvise just fine, so I'm more immobilised by the plan than the lack thereof sometimes.

    In that situation the base stress never leaves. You'd think that you can compartmentalise and just move furniture and then pick up where you left with the first task, but when there is stress to begin with your (or mine at least) perspective can really narrow. It is irrational.

  6. #16
    Pose! Salt n' pepper's Avatar
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    Oh yeah, stress plays a part here.

  7. #17
    Crazy Diamond Billy's Avatar
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    Sounds like he got out of having to do much, I know an ENTJ who does the same trick. he shows up for the 1st 10 minutes and the last 30 and takes all the credit when we're done.
    Ground control to Major Tom

  8. #18
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy View Post
    Sounds like he got out of having to do much, I know an ENTJ who does the same trick. he shows up for the 1st 10 minutes and the last 30 and takes all the credit when we're done.
    I really don't think this is the explanation...
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  9. #19
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slowriot View Post
    I can agree with that. But you are taking what Im saying to the extreme if you mean my description of ENTJ is just OCD. Im was generalizing I agree but still...
    Oh no, I think its fair to generalise, although perhaps a better, or different, way of framing it (which I think is better) would be of some advantage or opportunity which an ENTJ passes up because their "vision thing" or "grand designs" provide a greater incentive.

    Perhaps that's no clearer but if I personalise it, I cant really have a good time "California dreaming", sitting on a beach because the weather was good when I got up isnt the sort of spontaneous thing I'd do, downshifting for an easier, more flexible hours work life equally wouldnt appeal even if I could randomly party more now and think about saving, putting off for a rainy day or whatever later.

  10. #20
    Senior Member proximo's Avatar
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    Yeah well, I'd just say that was a combination of J tendency to like things planned out, and then just this person having bad time management.

    A J can be as anal as they like about their schedules without it affecting anyone else adversely, as long as they schedule REALISTICALLY, and leave plenty of "margin for error" time around each item. That way, if things take a little longer than expected, there's no big panic.

    I don't schedule things particularly, and I'm not a J, but I would get stressed if I was doing something with a bunch of people who knew I had somewhere I had to be at a certain time after this thing, and yet they were dawdling and wasting time, knowing this would mean I'd either have to leave the task undone (something I don't like), or let someone else down (which I also don't like). I try to manage my time so that this doesn't happen, by not giving key roles to anyone I don't trust to respect other people's commitments.
    I'm male and over 30, FYI.
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