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  1. #21
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecttcelfeR View Post
    I understand this part, the bolded. The underlined doesn't quite make sense to me. Above average would mean good. The way I see you meaning it is that they are above average to the bad, but below average to the good... this would mean that they deem themselves average and not incompotent, which goes against the test results. This reasoning also covers the unaltered text. This is a weird test anyway. So many fallacies.
    Agreed. The conclusion "sounds deep," but really isn't.

    The essence of what I mean is, when asked to evaluate one's own skill level, with respect to something that is an extremely common skill, such as reading, math, grammar, driving, and so on, the tendency is to estimate one's own skill as "pretty good, but not great". I know how to drive a car, I'm way better at driving a car now than when I was a kid, but I know I'm not a professional driver. So I don't evaluate myself as a bad driver, even if I am. I don't evaluate myself as a great driver, even if I am. I have no basis for comparison w/r to my skill as a driver, so I simply conclude "good, better than average, maybe, but not great." I would conclude this whether I am extremely good or extremely bad or truly average. So even if I am having near accidents all the time, I judge my skill as pretty good since I manage to avoid hitting anyone. Even if my habits are so good that I rarely have a close call, I have no way of realizing how unusually good my good habits are.

    Given that hypothesis as the base phenomenon, I think that other conclusions are a bit far-fetched. There is a tendency to conclude that it is overconfidence that causes the incompetence, or the concern over one's adequacy causes one to try harder and thus be more competent. This might indeed be happening on an individual basis, but I see no way to separate out such effects from the base selection effect that people will tend to regard themselves as "somewhat above average drivers."

    This totally breaks down for skills like physics knowledge. Most people are well aware of how ignorant they are of physics, and those who have a Ph.D. in physics are well aware that they are experts in the subject. The phenomenon is limited to very common skills that everyone has to some degree or another, for which there is very little communal feedback of one's skill. E.g., cooking is a common skill, but one is usually very aware of how bad or good one is at it, due to feedback from others and trying others' cooking.

  2. #22
    . Blank's Avatar
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    That falls under the realm of known unknowns.

    The professional physicist, out of anyone, knows that he or she knows very little about physics in the grand scheme of things; much less than anyone would think, yet they still know leaps and bounds more than the average person.

    The pro would have a proper grasp on how much he or she doesn't know, while the amateur would not.


    It's kind of a "You don't know how bad you are at something until you realize what 'bad' is." Unfortunately, a great deal of people don't have the foresight to see how skilled/perceptive/whatever they are at something.


    I really felt like I was just repeating myself the entire time in this post. <= (
    Ti = 19 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Te = 16[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
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    -----------------
    Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly;
    Man got to sit and wonder why, why, why;
    Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land;
    Man got to tell himself he understand

  3. #23
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blank View Post
    Also being too smart to realize that you're smart.

    Dunning–Kruger effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    How completely and utterly true. I like this.

    Please provide feedback on my Nohari and Johari Window by clicking here: Nohari/Johari

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  4. #24
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    Smart people tend to be very aware they're smart. It's idiots that are generally affected by the Dunning-Kruger effect.
    That's not what the theory itself says.

    On a personal level, I know I usually have had the issues where I overestimate everyone else's understanding/skill and underestimate my own. I might know how I score on standardized tests, but in real life situations, I tend to just assume everyone sees what I see and assume they're making decisions out of competence. I'm far too aware of what I DON'T know and assume everyone else has the same sort of self-monitoring, but eventually I've had it beaten into me that sometimes they don't and even when I'm unsure, it's still worth offering my opinion.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #25
    Superwoman Red Herring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    Smart people tend to be very aware they're smart. It's idiots that are generally affected by the Dunning-Kruger effect.
    I congratulate you if you are smart and know it and are very happy with yourself, but I personally know several gifted people suffering from self doubt and inferiority complexes or who simply assume that everybody starts reading Hegel at the age of 12.
    The good life is one inspired by love and guided by knowledge. Neither love without knowledge, nor knowledge without love can produce a good life. - Bertrand Russell
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  6. #26
    Riva
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    Lolz...

    Whatever extreme one chooses to identify himself with, would end up making him appear to be the opposite in other's eyes.

    might as well select the middle path and call oneself Average.

    I am Average. *big grin*

  7. #27
    Senior Member InsatiableCuriosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blank View Post
    Also being too smart to realize that you're smart.

    Dunning–Kruger effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Thank you the title of this thread provided much levity in my office today as we marked students' end of semester work. We were even able to find a few examples in the work we marked (with apologies to the intelligent and serious students here)
    "Study hard what interests you the most in the most undisciplined, irreverent and original manner possible."
    — Richard P. Feynman

    "Never tell a person a thing is impossible. G*d/the Universe may have been waiting all this time for someone ignorant enough of the impossibility to do just that thing."
    author unknown

  8. #28
    Senior Member forzen's Avatar
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    I rather be stupid and think I'm smart or rather, just be average and be happy. Happiness sound like a good trade for mediocre. Not saying I'm smart, but I just don't see the point of it anymore. Now a bad place to be is being smart enough to realize your not a genius and still see other people's shortcoming and not fit in. Talk about being in Limbo.
    This post grammatical errors had been intentionally left uncorrected.

  9. #29
    Senior Member LunarMoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by forzen View Post
    I rather be stupid and think I'm smart or rather, just be average and be happy. Happiness sound like a good trade for mediocre. Not saying I'm smart, but I just don't see the point of it anymore. Now a bad place to be is being smart enough to realize your not a genius and still see other people's shortcoming and not fit in. Talk about being in Limbo.
    I agree to an extent in that it's difficult to see the practical benefits of being intelligent but lacking in the confidence to put one's intelligence into use. Assuming, for instance, that above average writers never submit their literary works because they believe them to be inferior, this would seemingly result in the vast majority of published literary works being written by below average writers, those with the confidence to believe that they have a chance of publication. This would assumedly be true for every field, resulting in the bizarre paradox in which individuals of below average ability and intelligence are responsible for the vast majority of scientific and artistic advancements, bringing into serious question what skill and intellectual ability actually are. After all, can a person really be called competent if he is too indecisive to make any contributory works whatsoever?

    Then there is of course the fact that geniuses that go around denigrating themselves seem to be rather rare. The only one that immediately comes to mind is the turn of the century physicist, Oliver Heaveside, who actually referred to himself as a "worm". The likes of Stephen Hawkings and Thomas Edison on the other hand seem to be fairly confident in their ability to accomplish the seemingly impossible. That said, as the theory implies that those of above average ability are not so much more likely to denigrate themselves as below average ("full of doubt") but are simply to regard themselves as average, it is at least a tad easier to swallow.
    Surgeons replace one of your neurons with a microchip that duplicates its input-output functions. You feel and behave exactly as before. Then they replace a second one, and a third one, and so on, until more and more of your brain becomes silicon. Since each microchip does exactly what the neuron did, your behavior and memory never change. Do you even notice the difference? Does it feel like dying? Is some other conscious entity moving in with you?
    -Steven Pinker on the Ship of Theseus Paradox

  10. #30
    ¡MI TORTA! Amethyst's Avatar
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    Don't mean to derail the thread, but by what terms are you defining to be 'smart' as? First impressions? Multiple intelligences? IQ?

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