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[MBTI General] ENTPs and INFJs

Synarch

Once Was
Joined
Oct 14, 2008
Messages
8,445
MBTI Type
ENTP
I can account for this as well. I won't start the fight, but I wish someone would just come over to me and start fighting me so I felt justified to release my emotions. Or I'll just do something physically demanding in order to get the pain out (sometimes I take on too much though).

Hmm. I wonder if it's a result of passivity? For all our apparent assertiveness, we're pretty passive, I would guess. I relate to what you're saying.
 
R

ReflecTcelfeR

Guest
I've even gotten good at (Fe I suppose) knowing what to say to make them feel like I'm opening up to them without doing so. Only a few people will see me 'dark' enough to see what I'm truly thinking. Crying is like steam out of a kettle, you just need to remove the cork and we'll release. Just figuring out how to do this is difficult.
 

cascadeco

New member
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
9,083
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
9w1
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Simple. Occasionally we drop the front and get real with people. It's like finding a pearl in a pile of dog shit.

:)

Yeah. At the risk of sounding like a huge faggot, it helps to make yourself cry if for no other reason than you have to flush everything out.

Oh, totally. It's a needed release for me at times. It's just unfortunate that it's not something I can force, even if I know it's what would help. Basically it takes my body wearing itself completely down, and the sheer exhaustion and, frankly, giving up, is what allows the tears to come. Takes a while for me to give up though, I guess, and not fight it or try to think my way out of it. :smile:
 

Synarch

Once Was
Joined
Oct 14, 2008
Messages
8,445
MBTI Type
ENTP
Oh, totally. It's a needed release for me at times. It's just unfortunate that it's not something I can force, even if I know it's what would help. Basically it takes my body wearing itself completely down, and the sheer exhaustion and, frankly, giving up, is what allows the tears to come. Takes a while for me to give up though, I guess, and not fight it or try to think my way out of it. :smile:

Try alcohol and looking at yourself in the mirror. Works for me.
 
R

ReflecTcelfeR

Guest
Hmm. I wonder if it's a result of passivity? For all our apparent assertiveness, we're pretty passive, I would guess. I relate to what you're saying.

I'd say the passion/assertiveness only really awakens when we are spouting out ideas. Otherwise everyones business is there own. I think our justification (ratiionalization) also creates a passitivity, and on the chance that we cannot rationalize we pick up the unexplained emotions, put them in a box and keep them there for later, however once the unexplained/unrationalized emotions build up enough it's very difficult to keep them from seeping out.
 
R

ReflecTcelfeR

Guest
:)



Oh, totally. It's a needed release for me at times. It's just unfortunate that it's not something I can force, even if I know it's what would help. Basically it takes my body wearing itself completely down, and the sheer exhaustion and, frankly, giving up, is what allows the tears to come. Takes a while for me to give up though, I guess, and not fight it or try to think my way out of it. :smile:

I find it ironic that we understand the relief that crying can have and yet we resist it until the last moment, almost subconsciously testing ourselves.
 

Synarch

Once Was
Joined
Oct 14, 2008
Messages
8,445
MBTI Type
ENTP
I find it ironic that we understand the relief that crying can have and yet we resist it until the last moment, almost subconsciously testing ourselves.

Great point. It's hard to let go. It's hard to lose control. But, control is an illusion most of the time. And why is it so important to feel in control?
 
R

ReflecTcelfeR

Guest
And wouldn't it show you have even more control if you could *let* yourself cry?
 

strawberries

shadow boxer
Joined
Apr 20, 2010
Messages
947
MBTI Type
----
We may be in the NT district, but I hope the INFJs take note.
Ask yourself: attraction and repulsion, can you handle it?

In this case I'm reminded of Shakespeare - "The course of true love never did run smooth"
I hope everyone finds that perfect "wrangler".

vasilisa, you're such a cool infj. the throwdown/wrangle/push-pull is delicious. i want to see the world in different ways and i don't hold a grudge -game on.

i concur with the entp discussion above re deadlines. deadlines are usually arbitrary. if there's a logical explanation for why something is due at a certain time and actual real life consequences if it's late - then i'll get on board and row, row, row. if not, please spare me from your deadlines - they're tiresome :coffee:
 

cafe

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
9,827
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
9w1
Can I read this to mean that you are kind of the boss in the relationship? I've wondered about that with INFJ/INTP. "INF" seems so "soft", caring, classy, and likeable, but "J" likes to be bossy, order people around, impose its will, remind people of the chores they haven't finished yet, etc. It doesn't take any crap so to speak. Is that kind of how it goes? Is the J/P divide the biggest problem spot with this pairing in your experience? Procrastination and a "there's no rush"/"it can be done tomorrow" attitude on the part of the INTP while the INFJ has the "it has to be done now because I said so and I'm sick of this" approach?

That alone (if it's symptomatic of INTP/INFJ?), would cause me great strife in a relationship. I can't have someone ordering me around/telling me what to do as if I'm one of the children in the house. It just wouldn't go well.

I'm not bashing INFJ's here. In fact, I'm pretty sure INTP (or ENTP) with INFJ has great potential in most cases. I'm just wondering how the J/P plays out IRL.
The P/J thing was a struggle for probably the first ten years of our relationship until I discovered MBTI and learned that he wasn't intentionally being an evasive pain in the rear and taught myself how not to threaten his sense of autonomy while getting the closure I needed. That way he figured out that I wasn't trying to control him, but just wanting to know what he wanted to do so I could plan around him.

I think if I wasn't good at figuring that stuff out and adapting my behavior or if I was more J, it would be more of a problem. I'm a slob so the messy doesn't bother me and I usually only get intense if there is an important deadline of some kind.

He is kind of passive, but I've never met a more stubborn person in my life, so I have to be careful not to trigger that dang bear trap of obstinacy. It's a nightmare when that happens so I avoid it like the plague.

I do sometimes slip into a directive communication style because not only am I a firstborn, but we have four children and I do most of the day-to-day parenting, but when I catch myself I apologize and even with my kids, I'm generally a respectful, polite bossy. If I get too bad, he'll tease me about it and I'll back off.
 

Billy

Crazy Diamond
Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Messages
1,192
MBTI Type
INFJ
Can I read this to mean that you are kind of the boss in the relationship? I've wondered about that with INFJ/INTP. "INF" seems so "soft", caring, classy, and likeable, but "J" likes to be bossy, order people around, impose its will, remind people of the chores they haven't finished yet, etc. It doesn't take any crap so to speak. Is that kind of how it goes? Is the J/P divide the biggest problem spot with this pairing in your experience? Procrastination and a "there's no rush"/"it can be done tomorrow" attitude on the part of the INTP while the INFJ has the "it has to be done now because I said so and I'm sick of this" approach?

That alone (if it's symptomatic of INTP/INFJ?), would cause me great strife in a relationship. I can't have someone ordering me around/telling me what to do as if I'm one of the children in the house. It just wouldn't go well.

I'm not bashing INFJ's here. In fact, I'm pretty sure INTP (or ENTP) with INFJ has great potential in most cases. I'm just wondering how the J/P plays out IRL.

What are you talking about lol, INFJs are Fe based, we would rather just pick up the trash ourselves then to worry someone else unless it becomes a habit, then it needs to be addressed. The J in the INFJ is executing Fe, not Te or Ti.
 

cafe

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
9,827
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
9w1
What are you talking about lol, INFJs are Fe based, we would rather just pick up the trash ourselves then to worry someone else unless it becomes a habit, then it needs to be addressed. The J in the INFJ is executing Fe, not Te or Ti.
I don't mind the trash as long as it's not excessive, in my face, or causing me a good deal of inconvenience. For that reason, it works best when we have our own territories. I don't care if he's got three empty soda cans on his side of our computer table. If it starts avalanching onto my side, I start to get irritated, never mind my own side of the table is covered in permission slips I forgot to sign and send back to school with the kids. :laugh:
 

Billy

Crazy Diamond
Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Messages
1,192
MBTI Type
INFJ
Heh, the way I see it, I dont mind if people are sitting around and its messy because we are all comfortable, but to go 2 or 3 days and not clean would start to irritate me. Its so much better when everyone chips in and just cleans up every other day it never gets overwhelming that way and we can have guests easily etc... most of the time I end up doing all the cleaning though because everyone else sucks. :p
 

cafe

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
9,827
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
9w1
Heh, the way I see it, I dont mind if people are sitting around and its messy because we are all comfortable, but to go 2 or 3 days and not clean would start to irritate me. Its so much better when everyone chips in and just cleans up every other day it never gets overwhelming that way and we can have guests easily etc... most of the time I end up doing all the cleaning though because everyone else sucks. :p
I live with six other people, four of whom are minors and that does not include the four-footed residents. If I didn't have a high tolerance for mess, the place would be cleaner and I would be an absolute and constant terror. I tend not to even notice it's getting messy until it's out of hand and then I've got to get the crew moving to get stuff done because that's just too many creatures for me to try to keep up with by myself. So every few months I warn my husband that I'm about to go psychotic if things don't get straightened up and he helps motivate the kids so he doesn't have to listen to me. :blush:
 

INTPness

New member
Joined
Jan 22, 2009
Messages
2,157
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w4
The P/J thing was a struggle for probably the first ten years of our relationship until I discovered MBTI and learned that he wasn't intentionally being an evasive pain in the rear and taught myself how not to threaten his sense of autonomy while getting the closure I needed. That way he figured out that I wasn't trying to control him, but just wanting to know what he wanted to do so I could plan around him.

I think if I wasn't good at figuring that stuff out and adapting my behavior or if I was more J, it would be more of a problem. I'm a slob so the messy doesn't bother me and I usually only get intense if there is an important deadline of some kind.

He is kind of passive, but I've never met a more stubborn person in my life, so I have to be careful not to trigger that dang bear trap of obstinacy. It's a nightmare when that happens so I avoid it like the plague.

I do sometimes slip into a directive communication style because not only am I a firstborn, but we have four children and I do most of the day-to-day parenting, but when I catch myself I apologize and even with my kids, I'm generally a respectful, polite bossy. If I get too bad, he'll tease me about it and I'll back off.

Well, that's good to hear. It sounds like if both partners are willing to work with each other (and behave like relative grown ups), then it can work pretty well. I think INFJ is probably my best type-match, but that's just "in theory" because I've never experienced it. So, thanks for the answers. Very helpful for the purpose of understanding INFJ's.
 

INTPness

New member
Joined
Jan 22, 2009
Messages
2,157
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INTP
Enneagram
5w4
What are you talking about lol, INFJs are Fe based, we would rather just pick up the trash ourselves then to worry someone else unless it becomes a habit, then it needs to be addressed. The J in the INFJ is executing Fe, not Te or Ti.

Yeah, I was just asking because I don't have much experience with INFJ's.

Cafe's earlier posts led me to believe that she was the one keeping order in the house - making sure everyone is doing what they are supposed to be doing. So I just needed to ask what the actual J/P dynamic looks like with this particular pairing. Not in theory, but from someone who is actually living it, which she is.

I know, for instance, INTP/ESTJ can sometimes get pretty nasty. But, maybe Ti vs. Te plays a big role in that as well.

xNTP's can, as she says, be extremely stubborn. When "J" (in the ESTJ sense) is enforced, it can sometimes be like two rams locking horns in a tireless battle. From what you guys are saying, it doesn't quite get like that with INFJ/xNTP. But, I'm sure if both partners aren't "giving a little bit" and working to please the other, that it has the potential to be a dealbreaker for both types.
 

SinistralPal

New member
Joined
Jun 8, 2010
Messages
69
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
7w8
My mom is INFJ. We are cool. Although she tries to scratch at my emotional side...almost all the time. Why? It's not even like scratching on armour. It's like trying to hurt mist with a knife. Can't happen.
 

VYCanisMajoris

New member
Joined
Jun 21, 2010
Messages
39
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
897?
I've seen or started myself many threads regarding the ENTP and INFJ relation over the years and it tends to go like all seemingly INFJs claim to have an seemingly intp boyfriend and find entps too insolent. On the other hand, I as an entp find it to be a challenge to talk to most INFJs, because they come off as arrogant and insolent to me.

Thats actually exactly how it was with me and my ex INFJ girlfriend... She came across often as being insolent yet always accused me of being so which I thought was absurd. We had many things in common and similar sense of humor and she was a lot of fun when we'd go out but.... yeah, exactly what you said there when we were just chilling.

That's why i'm thinking I want to try going out with an ENTP. I think someone said.. you don't date ENTPs, they date you. I'm sure there are some female ENTPs that are happy with being just equal.
 

the state i am in

Active member
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
2,475
MBTI Type
infj
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
there can be a naturally tendency to read insolence as not communicating and trying to get on the same page for the infj. the entp, on the other hand, reads insolence as not taking personal responsibility for oneself and accepting the true weight of independence, which is not a weight to them but something ever so light.

i can see how these relationships get initiated (the connection!) but i can't imagine how they play out. balancing of the for-self vs the for-us. and what the ongoing cost analysis of the relationship by both parties means, feels like, etc.
 

Sarcasticus

Circus Maximus
Joined
May 3, 2008
Messages
1,037
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
5w4
ENTPs seem fun, but it seems like they are a bit Tiggery and sometimes when they are being bouncy, trouncey, flouncy, pouncey fun fun fun fun fun they bump you a little too hard and when you are snappish because it didn't feel very good, they get their feelings hurt.

LOL. My INFJ would agree.
 
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