[MBTI General] ENTPs and INFJs

[VYCanisMajoris]

yeah, i'm a very soft P-11... however I don't really consider myself a judger? guess it doesn't entirely mean that tho.

 

[entropie]

I know there are nasty versions of all types, and I'm not saying that's the essence of all ENTPs. Overall I get along fine with ENTPs, but from experience I find I get along with you guys best when I don't allow you in too close.

But I still get manlove right ?

[YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9ukBfS2XUU"].[/YOUTUBE]

 

[INTPness]

ENTPs seem fun, but it seems like they are a bit Tiggery and sometimes when they are being bouncy, trouncey, flouncy, pouncey fun fun fun fun fun they bump you a little too hard and when you are snappish because it didn't feel very good, they get their feelings hurt.

Also, the charming thing, for me, is true. I'm insecure and an extroverted spouse would make me feel threatened, I think.

And I don't have much energy and need a lot of time in my head and that would frustrate an extrovert and drain me.

I don't really find ENTPs insolent. The INTs (especially INTJs) are the ones who tend to be insolent, IMO. Obviously not all of them.

I am certainly not everyone's cup of tea. I run into guys who think they want someone like me, but they don't have to live with me and put up with me. I'm fairly demanding, yet I screw up a lot of details via absent-mindedness and I'm not terribly industrious. I require a patient, low-maintenance partner who is a bit on the passive side. My INTP calls himself my whipped cracker, but it works because he's a bit of a masochist.

Can I read this to mean that you are kind of the boss in the relationship? I've wondered about that with INFJ/INTP. "INF" seems so "soft", caring, classy, and likeable, but "J" likes to be bossy, order people around, impose its will, remind people of the chores they haven't finished yet, etc. It doesn't take any crap so to speak. Is that kind of how it goes? Is the J/P divide the biggest problem spot with this pairing in your experience? Procrastination and a "there's no rush"/"it can be done tomorrow" attitude on the part of the INTP while the INFJ has the "it has to be done now because I said so and I'm sick of this" approach?

That alone (if it's symptomatic of INTP/INFJ?), would cause me great strife in a relationship. I can't have someone ordering me around/telling me what to do as if I'm one of the children in the house. It just wouldn't go well.

I'm not bashing INFJ's here. In fact, I'm pretty sure INTP (or ENTP) with INFJ has great potential in most cases. I'm just wondering how the J/P plays out IRL.

 

[entropie]

I'm not bashing INFJ's here. In fact, I'm pretty sure INTP (or ENTP) with INFJ has great potential in most cases. I'm just wondering how the J/P plays out IRL.

Sex withdrawal helps to get your points thru ( which are of course actually none ). And if she still keeps criticizing you about the way you hang 50 t-shirt up to dry, retaliate and do the raizorbladetackle !!!

You're absolutely right the J/P divide IS a problem. my gf is very considerate and tries to learn in what situations the mentioning of chores pisses me off, while I try to be very unblind and to see what needs to be done before it arises.

its a walk on egg shells 24/7 but I hope one day, we'll be a team.

 

[INTPness]

Sex withdrawal helps to get your points thru

LOL. That's brutal in a marriage setting. It's just not the answer. It just creates more divide.

And if she still keeps criticizing you about the way you hang 50 t-shirt up to dry, retaliate and do the raizorbladetackle !!!

That's kind of what I was getting at. I'm in my 30's. Why do I need to be told how to hang a T-shirt? I didn't just crawl out from behind a rock yesterday and hang my very first T-shirt. Sure, show me your way to do something - I'm all ears. But, DO NOT attempt to impose your will on me. Errr, unless you'd like my will imposed on you? I'm pretty sure it's not appreciated when it's going the other way.

You're absolutely right the J/P divide IS a problem. my gf is very considerate and tries to learn in what situations the mentioning of chores pisses me off, while I try to be very unblind and to see what needs to be done before it arises.

I would imagine the bolded part is vital to the success of the relationship. Very important.

its a walk on egg shells 24/7 but I hope one day, we'll be a team.

I hope the same for you. Walking on eggshells isn't fun long-term.

 

[Tiltyred]

The ENTPs I have worked with seem to have oppositional/defiant disorder. Just receiving notice of a deadline seems to make them take a vacation. The more someone calls insistently and says it's urgent, the less ENTP picks up the phone; the more someone sends reminders that a deadline is looming, the less ENTP answers the emails kind of thing, and they will intentionally miss the deadline if they can get away with it. When you're tired and you need a question answered and they're the boss and they respond playfully or mockingly (and bouncey is exactly the word I had in mind, Cafe!), it's a waste of time and not funny. There's this huge emphasis on "You will NOT tell ME what to do!" that I can't comprehend because it's not useful at all.

So there's some J-ness as an example.

On the other hand ... they don't sweat the small stuff, they can take a joke, they are willing more than most to try to see things your way (if you can get their attention).

They need a good bit of pushback or they lose interest, while the INFJ desire is for harmony. But if you keep perfect harmony, it's like you disappear to them. So in some ways the INFJ has to work against its own happiness to get the result it wants. (In other words, you get the harmony when you give the pushback.)

 

[Synarch]

The ENTPs I have worked with seem to have oppositional/defiant disorder. Just receiving notice of a deadline seems to make them take a vacation. The more someone calls insistently and says it's urgent, the less ENTP picks up the phone; the more someone sends reminders that a deadline is looming, the less ENTP answers the emails kind of thing, and they will intentionally miss the deadline if they can get away with it. When you're tired and you need a question answered and they're the boss and they respond playfully or mockingly (and bouncey is exactly the word I had in mind, Cafe!), it's a waste of time and not funny. There's this huge emphasis on "You will NOT tell ME what to do!" that I can't comprehend because it's not useful at all.

I love hearing about how frustrated people get with us while there is still a note of affection in their description. It makes me feel safe to think I can be annoying and yet still loved. I think that's why I am so annoying. If you're lovable and people love you, what exactly does that prove? Nothing. But, if you're annoying and people love you despite themselves, why, that's quite an achievement!

1. Deadlines: Problem here is that I have yet to meet a deadline that wasn't flexible. I never even do my taxes until the final day you can file if you filed an extension (October 15). Also, I lack discipline and I need the pressure of being behind. Until I'm behind "there's still more time". Also, I respond to social pressure, which doesn't generally kick in until you're in jeopardy of missing deadlines. I try to get other people to do the reminding and pushing for me, so I can avoid it.

2. Avoiding people: If I'm behind I'm already freaking out inside. I don't want to talk to people if I know they're just going to bug me for something I already know about. Plus, I enjoy the "lion taming" and I like being in control. I like seeing how far I can push it and survive. But, in general, I'm usually just stressed from the overloaded responsibility.

For example, every Wednesday I do a call with each of my clients. Generally, I'm behind so it's very stressful every Tuesday night. But, as soon as my calls are done, I feel elated and it lasts until the following Tuesday, which leaves several days in which I did a lot of nothing .

3. Not liking being told what to do: I think this one is ironic. I think we are oppositional because we DO take everyone seriously. But, we feel burdened by it and rebel. I think ENTP's are rebels. But, rebels are reactionary, you see? They NEED something to push against. The rebel needs a cause. As such, the rebel ultimately feels quite dependent on those he rebels against.

On the other hand ... they don't sweat the small stuff, they can take a joke, they are willing more than most to try to see things your way (if you can get their attention).

We are people who need people, even if in our own retarded way.

They need a good bit of pushback or they lose interest, while the INFJ desire is for harmony. But if you keep perfect harmony, it's like you disappear to them. So in some ways the INFJ has to work against its own happiness to get the result it wants. (In other words, you get the harmony when you give the pushback.)

This is largely true. I think it's just a result of not understanding or appreciating calm. For me, calm is dangerous and has the potential for a surprise conflagration perhaps due to my home life growing up.

Ah, you made me write a book! That means you did well.

 

[ReflecTcelfeR]

Usually when I defy deadlines it's because I already know about them. I don't need to be reminded constantly, the more you think I'm not going to make it the more I want to wait until the last minute to prove you wrong. That's just what I do. The pressure, the fear of not making it is exhilerating. What if I don't make it?

I totally agree with that first paragraph Synarch. I love the fact that I can be SO annoying and people still enjoy being around me... it's interesting really. I suppose it'd only be this way if the pros out-weighed the cons.

 

[cascadeco]

I totally agree with that first paragraph Synarch. I love the fact that I can be SO annoying and people still enjoy being around me... it's interesting really. I suppose it'd only be this way if the pros out-weighed the cons.

Interesting. I think you do have a tendency to test the boundaries and see just how much you can get away with and how much the other will accommodate; it gets to a point where that very trait makes it almost not worth it, and I think that's an aspect I was referring to in my first point re. my not 'tolerating' certain things so they end up with more docile creatures who do put up with pretty much anything.

 

[Synarch]

Interesting. I think you do have a tendency to test the boundaries and see just how much you can get away with and how much the other will accommodate; it gets to a point where that very trait makes it almost not worth it, and I think that's an aspect I was referring to in my first point re. my not 'tolerating' certain things so they end up with more docile creatures who do put up with pretty much anything.

(Obviously I am not speaking for Reflecttcelfer.)

I don't want anyone to tolerate my craziness. I want someone to release me and calm me.

 

[ReflecTcelfeR]

I do wish for someone to 'wrangle' me if it were. If you can get me to shut-up you know you control a very powerful talent. I usually start out pretty outgoing as a test to see if you can handle my most obnoxious moments. If I deem that you can I mellow out rather quickly. If I know you can handle the extremes (on occasions) I know I can trust you.

 

[Sniffles]

I do wish for someone to 'wrangle' me if it were. If you can get me to shut-up you know you control a very powerful talent. I usually start out pretty outgoing as a test to see if you can handle my most obnoxious moments. If I deem that you can I mellow out rather quickly. If I know you can handle the extremes (on occasions) I know I can trust you.

Can I just beat you with a stick instead?

 

[ReflecTcelfeR]

At times that's the only thing that does it.

 

[Synarch]

Can I just beat you with a stick instead?

'Twould be a stress relief.

 

[cascadeco]

^

 

[Synarch]

^

I don't know about other ENTP's but I definitely internalize emotional stress in my body. The times in my life when I could not release my emotions I did want to get in a fight or have someone hit me. During times of serious turmoil I have even punched myself in the leg or punched things because the emotional aching was worse than the physical pain. Just to unlock and unbottle and break up what was choking inside.

 

[Vasilisa]

I love hearing about how frustrated people get with us while there is still a note of affection in their description. It makes me feel safe to think I can be annoying and yet still loved. I think that's why I am so annoying. If you're lovable and people love you, what exactly does that prove? Nothing. But, if you're annoying and people love you despite themselves, why, that's quite an achievement!

Yes to Synarch's words! Tremendous insight here.
The push and pull resonates so familiarly.

I observed something akin to this in an ENTP, and it seemed to be part of his essential nature. In friendships, work life, relationships, love.


We may be in the NT district, but I hope the INFJs take note.
Ask yourself: attraction and repulsion, can you handle it?

In this case I'm reminded of Shakespeare - "The course of true love never did run smooth"
I hope everyone finds that perfect "wrangler".

 

[cascadeco]

I don't know about other ENTP's but I definitely internalize emotional stress in my body. The times in my life when I could not release my emotions I did want to get in a fight or have someone hit me. During times of serious turmoil I have even punched myself in the leg or punched things because the emotional aching was worse than the physical pain. Just to unlock and unbottle and break up what was choking inside.

Man, you're iliciting a hug from me now. How DO you guys do that? lol.

Well I guess I am similar in that when I'm really emotionally confused or stressed, it can almost become like a mild panic attack, just overpowering and I might start feeling physically ill, like I'm coming down with a cold or the flu. I usually cannot talk it out, easily, because it's bottled up BECAUSE I don't know yet how I feel or am still processing.. after enough of that I eventually have to cry as a form of release because my body has exhausted itself.

 

[ReflecTcelfeR]

I can account for this as well. I won't start the fight, but I wish someone would just come over to me and start fighting me so I felt justified to release my emotions. Or I'll just do something physically demanding in order to get the pain out (sometimes I take on too much though).

 

[Synarch]

Man, you're iliciting a hug from me now. How DO you guys do that? lol.

Simple. Occasionally we drop the front and get real with people. It's like finding a pearl in a pile of dog shit.

Well I guess I am similar in that when I'm really emotionally confused or stressed, it can almost become like a mild panic attack, just overpowering and I might start feeling physically ill, like I'm coming down with a cold or the flu. I usually cannot talk it out, easily, because it's bottled up BECAUSE I don't know yet how I feel or am still processing.. after enough of that I eventually have to cry as a form of release because my body has exhausted itself.

Yeah. At the risk of sounding like a huge faggot, it helps to make yourself cry if for no other reason than you have to flush everything out.