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  1. #21
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    And yet, I'm often the first to volunteer to help people in distress. I don't know why too, I guess it's a kind of instinct. I find charity business to be insincere, yet when people in real trouble ask me to help them, and even if I find their cause to be desperate and impossible to win, I'm always here.

    So, I'm wondering the possibility that in fact, I could have extremely high ethical values, almost impossible to achieve for normal men, and that I'm considering most of my fellow-men not to be worth them. I despise people, yet I love mankind, even if it looks crass ignorant and totally irresponsible.

    Isn't it a paradoxical, bittersweet feeling? I feel optimistic and pessimistic at the same time. Charming and nice on the outside, yet completely disillusioned in the inside.

    Sometimes, it looks like hopeless idealism. Just like if my ethos -whatever it would be- would be far more demanding than the majority of people who describe themselves as Feelers...

    So, what do you think?
    I think that's your Tertiary Fe coming out. Empathy, Fe caretaking instinct. It gives you idealistic tendencies of course, but it doesn't make ENTPs the ultimate idealists, unless their Fe is strong enough to appear dominant or close to it (such as was the case with the Tenth Doctor). Fe-dom types (ENFJs especially) are much more idealistic.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Teacher (Idyllic), ESE-IEI (Si-ESFj), SLue|I|, Sanguine-Melancholy
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  2. #22
    Senior Member Xellotath's Avatar
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    Pfft, predictable.

    Out of all of the NTs to get an omg-i-have-feelings episode,

    figures only the ENTP ego would say omg-we-are-the-ultimate-idealists!

    ...

    I'm kidding, I <3 u.

    "Neurotic, ha!"
    I let out a scornful laugh.
    "If neurotic is wanting two mutually exclusive things at one and the same time, then I'm neurotic as hell.
    I'll be flying back and forth between one mutually exclusive thing and another for the rest of my days.
    "

    — Sylvia Plath, The Bell Jar.

  3. #23
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xellotath View Post
    Pfft, predictable.

    Out of all of the NTs to get an omg-i-have-feelings episode,

    figures only the ENTP ego would say omg-we-are-the-ultimate-idealists!

    ...

    I'm kidding, I <3 u.
    Check the definition of idealism.
    4. Philosophy The theory that the object of external perception, in itself or as perceived, consists of ideas.
    Ideas, not how you feel about it and how it means that it must be the ultimate truth in the universe.
    Just saying, you know.

    Idealism actually fits Ti much better than Fi.


    I'm kidding, I <3 u.
    okey, didn't see that.
    But I still stand behind what I said about idealism and Ti.
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  4. #24
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Fe-tertiary is funny like that. INTJs are the ones most likely to go all cheap romance novel-like on their girls.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Teacher (Idyllic), ESE-IEI (Si-ESFj), SLue|I|, Sanguine-Melancholy
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  5. #25
    Senior Member proximo's Avatar
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    I agree with folk saying it's tertiary Fe gaining a foothold... once Ne and Ti have had time to embed themselves enough to feel secure, so that they don't feel threatened by the use of other functions, Fe will start to creep out...

    In my case, I gave my Fe a "jump start" by deliberately and consciously augmenting it in my late 20's... the result was disastrous. Yes, I cared about people more, and I cared about values and morals and stuff more... but... the down side was that it developed sort of independently of Ne and Ti, leaving me with a constant feeling of being torn apart. I could never see what the right choice was for quite some time... strong instructions from Fe would have Ti screaming and covering its ears, and vice versa. The resultant behaviour was not pretty.

    Taken a few years, but they've integrated more now... like Ti and Fe are two duelling cowboys, circling each other and whoever draws first gets to make the decision. Sometimes they come to the same conclusion, and that's just magical
    I'm male and over 30, FYI.
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  6. #26
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmileyMan View Post
    Blackmail!: *jerk jerk jerk*
    Mo(i)st ENTPs: "mmm spread your ethical ego-juices all over me. Make a mess of mess, baby" *squeezes tits together*
    Blackmail!: "iiiihhhh I'm cumming, oh yeah, ihhhhh, ah ah ah.. Did I mention I went to one of the best and most uptight high school in all of France? I'm getting myself hard again now. Tell me I'm a special boy, mommy."
    It feels good, you have no idea how much.
    Believe me, you should try sometimes!
    All you need is love, and I love you!
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  7. #27
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fill View Post

    I relate to what you say here, but does this apply to every space of life? Take mathematics for example: I cannot apply what you've said about your optimism and disillusionment when dealing strictly with numbers or variables– or even in scientific thinking; however, the above fits seamlessly to how I react to people. I think the problem here has to do more with how illogical we see people as, coupled with the realization that we ourselves are people, leading us to the conclusion that we are illogical. Yikes!
    Absolutely.

    A lots of NTs see themselves as beacons of rationality in an insane world. I don't subscribe to this "heroic" and rather misanthropic posture. We're no better than the rest of mankind, we're part of it and play the same global game.

    Somehow, it makes me remember what Eck just said about his Ego, that "his thought processes excludes (him) from the picture when it comes to analysis".
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  8. #28

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    OMG I can totally relate to this. To me, I hate people as individuals, but love humanity as a whole...

  9. #29
    ¡MI TORTA! Amethyst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchitectofFate View Post
    OMG I can totally relate to this. To me, I hate people as individuals, but love humanity as a whole...

  10. #30
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proximo View Post
    In my case, I gave my Fe a "jump start" by deliberately and consciously augmenting it in my late 20's... the result was disastrous. Yes, I cared about people more, and I cared about values and morals and stuff more... but... the down side was that it developed sort of independently of Ne and Ti, leaving me with a constant feeling of being torn apart. I could never see what the right choice was for quite some time... strong instructions from Fe would have Ti screaming and covering its ears, and vice versa. The resultant behaviour was not pretty.
    My two close entp friends note this internal conflict very much-they use the term mask to describe it. I started this thread below based on what one of them said.

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...ing-masks.html

    I actually grew in Te very early and built it as an Fi value-logic is best. This actually works quite well...until in a pure emotional situation that Te does not work on. Then a childlike, amorphous Fi comes to the surface and gets to make all the decisions-I get stuck in the loop you describe above...logically I know the choice is irrational but it is driven by Fi-which I must follow. It can be like having your brain shredded.

    But Jung said this is how we grow-by facing that internal conflict, we forge the two functions into something more, and we evolve. but it feels like doing math with handfuls of pudding.

    but on topic. My older entps give their "Ti ideas" as an offering, a way of caring, for those in the social group they are a part of. It is their contribution.

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