[NT] NT's, you are summoned yet again.

[ReflecTcelfeR]

Okay. Now let me introduce this. Would Ne be the xNTP's way of allowing emotions into their systems. Seeing as ideas can be dreams. Weird correlation, but do you see it?

 

[EffEmDoubleyou]

Well, I think an example of that might be choosing to take a chance on fulfilling a lifelong dream even though you know very few people succeed at it, etc. Knowing it's not exactly logical or "smart," but knowing you have to do it to satisfy a piece of your soul.

This. Many of the world's great accomplishments were made by people who took a foolish chance. The odds are poor for attempting greatness.

It might be an extreme example, but pretend a loved one is in a burning building or other life threatening situation where you are in peril if you try to save them. It's not the most logical thing to try to save them, but if you don't you may live a life of regret. I guess that means love beats reason.

 

[entropie]

I think its arrogant to assume one could make any decision without an emotional influence.
I further think in the end its exactly that kind of rational thinking needed to make reasonable decisions.

 

[ReflecTcelfeR]

To seperate emotion from reason is impossible. But figuring out when to rely on one more than the other (though intwined) is the most logical.

 

[entropie]

To seperate emotion from reason is impossible. But figuring out when to rely on one more than the other (though intwined) is the most logical.

But you need to assume for that you can tell the one from the other. I rather think it's like a wave with an oscillating frequency, meaning part of your decision was for the sake of reason but it got motivated from a wave front of emotion that came before or will come after it.

For example: a reasonable decision could be not to fuck with that girl drunk tonight, cause you have a girlfriend you very love. So why is it reasonable ? Cause you are concious of the emotional implications it could have for you and every sensing being tries to avoid inflicting pain upon themselves or their loved Ones.

A person who claims to be free of emotions or to not feel much in daily life, is not automatically a reasonable person, because he's lacking to see one side of the coin and that cant really lead to the wisdom needed to make reasonable decisions. It's like a body that in the light of the sun throws a shadow on the ground, with the sun and the shadow being the focal points in the eclipse of an human entity made from emotion and reason.

A person who claims to be less in touch with her or his emotions is never a really reasonable guy and his logic is most often only brutalized pragmatism, cause it fails to see the big picture which is life. In your whole life you will maybe have two or three occasions on which you need to decide on important things with cold logic, but if you wouldnt feel a bit sad about your decision then nevertheless, its not because you are very pragmatic, its because you are emotionally underdeveloped.

It's a symptome of our present life, at least thats how it feels for me, that people become more and more strangers to each other. And with that being true one hasnt really the chance at all to ever reflect his emotions on others and many many people stay emotionally retarded and unreasonable in many ways for all their life.

These are not my words, its what my INFJ thinks about it, but I would sign it any time.

 

[ReflecTcelfeR]

But you need to assume for that you can tell the one from the other. I rather think it's like a wave with an oscillating frequency, meaning part of your decision was for the sake of reason but it got motivated from a wave front of emotion that came before or will come after it.

It's a symptome of our present life, at least thats how it feels for me, that people become more and more strangers to each other. And with that being true one hasnt really the chance at all to ever reflect his emotions on others and many many people stay emotionally retarded and unreasonable in many ways for all their life.

Two great points!

 

[BÃ¥rris]

The only times I find emotions better than reason is when I try to talk some feelers into something. Unfortunately, I suck at it.

 

[Within]

I prefer emotional thinking. It's easier to claim you were wrong because then you just have to claim that your feelings changed.

That's loser talk.

 

[freedom geek]

I guess in the most base of moral/value/goal assumptions (not how to prevent suffering, if preventing suffering itself is good) then it is acceptable as reason cannot derive ought statements without prior assumptions.

 

[Mondo]

When does making decisions with emotions fit better than reason in the eyes of NT's, if at all?

To answer your question, never.
Sometimes, reason can be used to find the most optimal way to satisfy a desire/emotion but I don't make any decisions that I consider to be unreasonable.

 

[Bushranger]

What do I want? - Emotional
Why do I want it? - Emotional/Rational
How do I achieve it? - Rational

 

[Mondo]

I prefer emotional thinking. It's easier to claim you were wrong because then you just have to claim that your feelings changed.

That's true- that's what an ex girlfriend of mine always did.. I can't say it really worked in her favor because I'd start using the Socratic method on her which would just piss her off and make me feel like I proved my point (a.k.a: A proud asshole).

 

[Resonance]

1) understand that emotional state influences thoughts. You can see this by looking on the physical level; mood hormones influence the statistical weighting of your neurons, so some are more likely to fire when you're happy than when you're sad, which means you might make different decisions even though they are both entirely logical.
2) understand that emotional expression influences other people much more than complex logic, which requires them to have an internal dialogue matching your own. To make a convincing argument, it may be necessary to include appeals to emotion, force etc.
3) sometimes the logical thing to do isn't the thing that will make you happier. While it may seem like it is always a good idea to hold off on immediate gratification for something better down the road, you have to remember that dopamine and serotonin levels affect how quickly we will get there, and the only way to boost them is with gratification.

 

[Vie]

As I find it difficult to truly like another person, when I do -- I trust that person inexplicably. From there on, with that particular person, I tend to listen to my heart over my head. I berate myself later for doing such though. Always.

Emotionally dealing with situations bothers me as I find it a waste of time. If I can't logically, rationally get to answer, I wait. I attempt to take it out of the equation.
This rarely works.

 

[copperfish17]

When does making decisions with emotions fit better than reason in the eyes of NT's, if at all?

When the possibility of hurting someone else is there (usually an F, I guess). It has to be someone I really, really like, however. Otherwise I usually just trudge on with my rationale.

 

[Totenkindly]

When does making decisions with emotions fit better than reason in the eyes of NT's, if at all?

I hate saying "emotional" but I think "relational thinking" is sometimes better in situations involving... RELATIONSHIPS.

I see so many NT relationships crash and burn because the NT tries to treat it like something to pick apart logically. Relationships aren't about logic. They're about commitment to another human being, and sharing good times together, and becoming emotionally intimate. Sometimes you gotta lay the logical deconstruction aside. (That might be the biggest thing I learned in many many years of being with an ISFJ.)


Also, relationships includes "relationships with self."
Finding personal happiness and fulfillment.

You can sit and create logical arguments over what makes sense -- what job to pursue, what degrees to get, what makes sense to chase down. But you know what? sometimes what makes sense on paper leaves your heart cold and you feel disinterested and detached. In these times, you learn to listen to your heart even if you can't explain why, or you might think it's irrational. In the end, we live in order to feel alive, and always making a justifiably "rational" decision won't leave you feeling alive.

When you need to drive a nail, use a hammer.
When you need to turn a screw, don't use a hammer.
There's "rationality" for you.

 

[Aerithria]

I only specifically call upon emotion to make decisions when the options present themselves to be equally logical.

However, it's not often that I can make a decision without emotional influence. It isn't rational to choose to be miserable, after all.

 

[onemoretime]

Emotions are more important when dealing with other people.

and...

I hate saying "emotional" but I think "relational thinking" is sometimes better in situations involving... RELATIONSHIPS.

I see so many NT relationships crash and burn because the NT tries to treat it like something to pick apart logically. Relationships aren't about logic. They're about commitment to another human being, and sharing good times together, and becoming emotionally intimate. Sometimes you gotta lay the logical deconstruction aside. (That might be the biggest thing I learned in many many years of being with an ISFJ.)


Also, relationships includes "relationships with self."
Finding personal happiness and fulfillment.

You can sit and create logical arguments over what makes sense -- what job to pursue, what degrees to get, what makes sense to chase down. But you know what? sometimes what makes sense on paper leaves your heart cold and you feel disinterested and detached. In these times, you learn to listen to your heart even if you can't explain why, or you might think it's irrational. In the end, we live in order to feel alive, and always making a justifiably "rational" decision won't leave you feeling alive.

When you need to drive a nail, use a hammer.
When you need to turn a screw, don't use a hammer.
There's "rationality" for you.

Emotions ARE relational thinking. It's so important to human survival that we evolved an entirely separate cognitive mechanism from that which deals with non-human objects. Emotions are usually very logical... it's just that the other-than-human logic system generally can't handle the parameters and priorities that the emotive system deals with. The flip side to this is that sometimes the emotive system overpowers the other-than-human logic system, anthropomorphizing the world. Of course, without that, we would have never domesticated animals.

 

[Totenkindly]

Emotions are usually very logical...

That's more of a stretch.

I'll grant you "fuzzy logic" but that's it -- they are not necessarily consistent between individuals nor predictable, they are partially related but not completely, and people can create emotional states that might not be useful to their success, leading to distorted logic.

This is why we make a distinction in MBTI between Feeling values and emotions. They actually are somewhat connected but not identical.

 

[Neobick]

That's more of a stretch.

I'll grant you "fuzzy logic" but that's it -- they are not necessarily consistent between individuals nor predictable, they are partially related but not completely, and people can create emotional states that might not be useful to their success, leading to distorted logic.

This is why we make a distinction in MBTI between Feeling values and emotions. They actually are somewhat connected but not identical.

Isnt emotions ultimately logical, fit in a system in which chemicals control our mood? It may be hard to understand because its so deep compared to mathematical logic, in which there usually is one or a few answers to a question. But an omnipotent being would be able to analyse emotions correctly with logical precision. But maybe its to much for we mortals to handle.