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  1. #41
    Priestess Of Syrinx Katsuni's Avatar
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    Wait, I was in the middle of som---


    *Materializes into the rune etched circle, candles flickering at her arrival*

    Yeah, thanks. Because summoning is friendly and timely, and doesn't make me feel like I want to puke. Srsly.

    Anyway...

    I don't think it's ever a "GOOD" idea to decide with emotions or values overriding reason. If yeur values override reason, then they aren't reasonable and shouldn't exist. That is yeur #1 key defining realization that yeur values SUCK, and that yeu should change yeur mind in the first place.

    Yes, I get emotional at times, and yes, I can let it affect my work. I don't care for this, but it happens.

    Fact is though, at these times, I know it's wrong. Massive stress, fear, or other strong emotional ties can drag me away from a reasoned, thought out way of doing things, and it pretty much consistently and always turns out BAD.

    Emotional decisions are whot makes my BF go ballistic on people and refuse to talk to them anymore for something he imagined that doesn't even exist. Value based decisions are whot make people bomb abortion clinics, or carbomb civilians, or attack the WTC. This is whot happens when yeu aren't thinking with yeur head clearly, and are going off OPINION ALONE, and enforcing that opinion on everyone else, regardless of whether they agree or not.

    Fact is, emotional/value based reasoning, is flawed to the core. If yeu have to leave reasoning behind, then yeu have already admitted that whot yeu are doing isn't correct.

    Occasionally there are leaps of faith. Whot most people fail to realize, is that most of these 'leaps of faith', involve that person plummeting to their doom. Yeu don't hear about the thousands who die or get stuck in terrible situations needlessly, because they went with their emotions or values; yeu only hear about the ones who beat the odds, which are rare.

    Or, specifically, yeu hear about the ones who were emotion based all the time, yeu just ignore them.

    The guy who goes back into the burning house for his dog and they both die. The overly zealous religious nut who kills someone in the name of her values. The politician who commits political suicide by saying he thinks women and blacks shouldn't be allowed to vote.

    These are the faces of yeur emotional and value based decisions. Savour them, and don't become them.

  2. #42
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    That's more of a stretch.

    I'll grant you "fuzzy logic" but that's it -- they are not necessarily consistent between individuals nor predictable, they are partially related but not completely, and people can create emotional states that might not be useful to their success, leading to distorted logic.

    This is why we make a distinction in MBTI between Feeling values and emotions. They actually are somewhat connected but not identical.
    That's only because we, the observers, often don't know the exact stimulus, nor the exact guiding principles and priorities, that lead to a given emotional response. Often, the person emoting doesn't consciously know these things. This makes finding an external logic difficult.

  3. #43
    Energizer Bunny Resonance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    That's only because we, the observers, often don't know the exact stimulus, nor the exact guiding principles and priorities, that lead to a given emotional response. Often, the person emoting doesn't consciously know these things. This makes finding an external logic difficult.
    It's much more efficient to think of it as 'fuzzy logic' - neural networks, hormone levels, probabilities, statistics.

    Sure, it's probably theoretically possible to describe it in a complete logical system accounting for every particle in the body and the environment, but modeling that would be physically impossible.
    The beauty of a living thing is not the atoms that go into it, but the way those atoms are put together. ~ rCoxI ~ INfj ~ 5w6 so/sp

  4. #44
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    Emotion can sometimes act as a sanity check on a rational decision. Sometimes a perfectly rational decision can be incorrect due to one or more faulty premises; if you find that you are not emotionally at peace with a decision, that's a signal that you may need to re-examine your foundational assumptions.

  5. #45
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecttcelfeR View Post
    When does making decisions with emotions fit better than reason in the eyes of NT's, if at all?
    Stress. It makes them fall back to their lower functions.

    Mind you though, there are cases of NTs that are quite emotional or idealistic -- particularly ENTPs and INTJs (tertiary Fe and Fi, respectively). INTJs I'd actually say are the most likely of all T types to be emotional.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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  6. #46
    Pumpernickel
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecttcelfeR View Post
    When does making decisions with emotions fit better than reason in the eyes of NT's, if at all?
    When it'll make the people around you tear up in pride.

  7. #47
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    Stress. It makes them fall back to their lower functions.
    Stress will make them do it, but I don't know if they'd agree it's a better "fit" for that situation. If anything, the stress makes it more likely that the expression of emotion is going to be negative than if they were not stressed.



  8. #48
    Senior Member Helios's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecttcelfeR View Post
    When does making decisions with emotions fit better than reason in the eyes of NT's, if at all?
    I can't think of a time.

  9. #49
    filling some space UnitOfPopulation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecttcelfeR View Post
    When does making decisions with emotions fit better than reason in the eyes of NT's, if at all?
    I usually prioritize my tasks on a mostly rational basis, but I find it great to alter the order a little to consider my whims and feelings of the moment. Often the feeling will guide me towards a task I'll be more motivated to do, for a reason or another.

    Feelings affect my quality of life, so I factor them in my decision-making, where appropriate. Not many of my decisions are much based on feelings, though.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  10. #50
    Geolectric teslashock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecttcelfeR View Post
    When does making decisions with emotions fit better than reason in the eyes of NT's, if at all?
    Am I the only NT that hates these kinds of questions?

    I don't really separate emotions and logic/reason. I realize that emotions and logic go hand-in-hand and that the two join together to help me make all of my decisions. Even though "emotions" go into my decision-making process, I still believe that my decisions are rational and logical.

    Basically, I don't equate emotions with a lack of logic.

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