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  1. #61
    Senior Member ThinkingAboutIt's Avatar
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    From what I can see, they are pretty opposite. J's schedule things a year in advance, and actually do what is on their calendar (that blows my mind ). They like closure, so they want an answer and comittment right away (they always say it is so they can plan things). They are all morning people too (might not be a J trait, I don't know). They like visible organization. And, they think that people that aren't the same, or who don't do these things are flaky, irresponsible, etc. My sister often says that she doesn't remind me of events because it would 'enable my irresponsibility'. I told her that if she wants me to show up, she should remind me about whatever event they scheduled 6 months before
    Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

  2. #62
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Beyond the sharp contrast between Perceiver and Judger behavior, it's just damn near impossible to have your P/J orientation centered, because it means that your perceiving and judging functions are both ambiguously oriented, and ambiguously located. For you to be ENTx for example, you'd have to be both Te-dominant and Ni-auxiliary, and Ne-dominant and Ti auxiliary. It'd be easier to be caught in the middle of ENTJ and INTP (Te/Ni vs Ti/Ne), or INTJ and ENTP (Ni/Te vs Ne/Ti).
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  3. #63
    Senior Member Robopop's Avatar
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    Perceivers have Pe and Ji as their dom and aux and Je and Pi as their tert and inferior functions, so they will tend to value external flexibility and internal organization.

    Judgers have Je and Pi as their dom and aux and Pe and Ji as their tert and inferior functions, so they will tend to value external organization and internal flexiblility.

    But every type has Je, Ji, Pe, and Pi functions, like an INTP has Ti, Ne, Si, and Fe.

    This is all in theory of course.

  4. #64
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Je may very well not find external organization as important, depending on its emphasis. I have a very strong Te, but its focus is heavily in the analytical side. I can spot how and why something doesn't work as well as it could (or should) from a mile away, but my room is a pigsty.
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  5. #65
    ReflecTcelfeR
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThinkingAboutIt View Post
    From what I can see, they are pretty opposite. J's schedule things a year in advance, and actually do what is on their calendar (that blows my mind ). They like closure, so they want an answer and comittment right away (they always say it is so they can plan things). They are all morning people too (might not be a J trait, I don't know). They like visible organization. And, they think that people that aren't the same, or who don't do these things are flaky, irresponsible, etc. My sister often says that she doesn't remind me of events because it would 'enable my irresponsibility'. I told her that if she wants me to show up, she should remind me about whatever event they scheduled 6 months before
    The way you describe J most definitly makes me a P. I'm getting an understanding. I've been thinking about it more, but it seems when I'm alone I'm an IJ, but when I'm around people I become EP (I usually always stay NT, however when I'm in EP form I do have more F).

  6. #66
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    You're a J. The definition described by ThinkingAboutIt is the Kirseyan definition, which relies entirely on actions as opposed to thought processes (as Jung originally intended), and is thus pedestrian at best.
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  7. #67
    ReflecTcelfeR
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    After reading several different descriptions of INTJ and ENTJ behavior, these were the ones I related too the most.

  8. #68
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    Well, the theory is that a person's functional order will affect their behavior, which to an extent is true, but could be messed up by the way functions are oriented in the different types (which in a few cases doesn't fit the conceptions Kiersey had of the types). For example, ENFPs are Te-tertiary, and as a result they have a slightly stronger tendency to be organized than ENTPs.
    100 - 1 = 99
    9 - 1 = 8
    9 - 8 = 1
    8 + 1 = 9
    9 X 9 = T(18)
    9 + 9 = 18

    81 - 18 = T(9 X 4)
    99 - 36 = ?

    The basis of your tertiary is not found.

  9. #69
    Senior Member ThinkingAboutIt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    You're a J. The definition described by ThinkingAboutIt is the Kirseyan definition, which relies entirely on actions as opposed to thought processes (as Jung originally intended), and is thus pedestrian at best.
    I am pretty new to all of this and here to learn. What you said makes me curious because both Jung and Kiersey are theories. Theories have to be 'proven' in real life. So, actions do matter...and thoughts eventually become actions? (I realize you are talking about 'information processing', but eventually, that is going to end up in action too, ergo the question).
    Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

  10. #70
    Professional Trickster Esoteric Wench's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robopop View Post
    Perceivers have Pe and Ji as their dom and aux and Je and Pi as their tert and inferior functions, so they will tend to value external flexibility and internal organization.

    Judgers have Je and Pi as their dom and aux and Pe and Ji as their tert and inferior functions, so they will tend to value external organization and internal flexiblility.

    But every type has Je, Ji, Pe, and Pi functions, like an INTP has Ti, Ne, Si, and Fe.

    This is all in theory of course.
    Wow! This is the best I've ever heard this described and I think Robopop is exactly right.

    I do think better balance between J and P is possible, but it's not akin to learning to write with you right hand when you were born left handed. I think J/P balance is a result of comprehensive mastery of all our top 3-4 cognitive functions and an ability to be able to CHOOSE to use the function most appropriate to the situation and not just the ones we are most comfortable using.

    I'm going to subscribe to this thread presently. Very interesting.

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