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  1. #41
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    What about ENTM? M is halfway between J and P, a very good balance, indeed. (Yeah I like stupid jokes)

  2. #42
    ReflecTcelfeR
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    Would a lazy J be considered a P? I think I know the answer, but I want to make sure. I would think so. Since the fact that J usually stands for judgement, which is interrupted as quick. Though if this 'J' makes for quickness, then how are some J's considered 'long distance' thinkers? Is it how the J and P view far off decisions?

  3. #43
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecttcelfeR View Post
    Would a lazy J be considered a P?
    Hell no. Laziness doesn't make a Perceiver, even if many of us are lazy.

    Since the fact that J usually stands for judgement, which is interrupted as quick. Though if this 'J' makes for quickness, then how are some J's considered 'long distance' thinkers?
    Judgers (as defined by Jung's typology) tend to be very decisive, because they think in a narrower way than Perceivers -- which is also why they're "long distance" thinkers. NJs pick one spot in the future and head that way, whereas NPs get caught up in exploring a thousand different possibilities. it has to do with the difference in which Ne (theorist and inventive) and Ni (strategist and far-seeing) work.
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  4. #44
    Senior Member thescientist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    Be careful about that -- if you're messy but your standard mode of operation is to plan ahead, then you're probably an NTJ, J/P is much more about how you think than about how you act.

    Do you follow a straight, organized line of reasoning? Do you have a tendency to foresee how things are likely to be, and plan out accordingly? Are you good at organization and delegation? Do you have an intuitive grasp of whether something works or not, and/or how they can work better? If you answer yes to most of these questions, you're probably an NTJ.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    NTPs use Extroverted Intuition (Ne), which is a function that plays with multiple possibilities, interconnections and patterns; and Introverted Thinking (Ti), which focuses on the details, specifics and intricacies of an idea, principle, system or object. NTJs on the other hand use Extroverted Thinking (Te), which manages, organizes and nitpicks for efficiency; and Introverted Intuition (Ni), which sees the future (or more concretely what the future most likely holds based on what information you already have) and plans accordingly.

    If your principal mode of operation is strategy, foresight and planning then you probably use Te Ni rather Ne Ti, which makes you NTJ rather than NTP, even if you're messy. The difference between the two is significant.
    Thanks for those descriptors. It really clarified some things for me and cemented my belief in my INTJ type. I can be a mess, but my thought process is very J. My strengths are definitely organization and efficiency when I get into that mode.

    Also, over the years I've come to realize you can't plan ahead for everything. Having so many P friends, it's practically impossible to plan ANYTHING a week in advance with them. Every time I tried they just weren't able to give me an answer. So you can sort of say I just 'gave up' on the planning ahead and 'go with the flow' much more now. Although in my head, I am always thinking of the future and for the most part like to know what to expect if I'm going anywhere.

    And yes to Te Ni

  5. #45
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    Oh, God.

    Sim leaves and now Aleksei thinks he's the authority on functional analysis...


  6. #46
    Senior Member thescientist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Oh, God.
    Sim leaves and now Aleksei thinks he's the authority on functional analysis...
    Is he wrong?

  7. #47
    ReflecTcelfeR
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    That makes sense. I'm pretty much set on my type now. Thanks! I think Aleksei did a very good job answering and explaining things.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecttcelfeR View Post
    Then NTJ it is.
    Read these two descriptions: INTJ and INTP

    Whichever one rings more true, that is likely the one you are.

    You should listen to Tesla about the J/P testing issues: cuz she's right.

    After that, it gets more complicated.

    *

    There are basically two schools of thought:

    1. One says that NTs can use all four attitude functions (Ni, Te, Ne, Ti) to various degrees, with Ni and Te usually pairing together as NiTe (INTJ) or TeNi (ENTJ), and Ne and Ti pairing together as NeTi (ENTP) or TiNe (INTP). If you normally use some pairing of Ni and Te as your first two functions, then Ne and Ti would be the "shadow" functions of your first two functions; if you use some pairing of Ne and Ti as your first two functions, then Ni and Te would be the "shadow" functions of your first two functions. The greater degree to which you use your shadow functions, the more balanced your J/P would be.

    2. The other says that using one's shadow functions almost never happens.

    *

    Neither side really has proof.

    They bicker about this issue endlessly.

    *

    To review:

    1. Listen to what Tesla said about the testing problem.
    2. Read the INTJ and INTP descriptions from personalitypage.com
    3. Listen to what Tesla said about learning more about the functions.
    4. After all that, start coming up with your own theories about what J/P balance and shadow function usage. As an NTJ, you'll likely believe that shadow function usage is possible, as NTJs like to "open possibilities up" (Ni), whereas NTPs like to "close possibilities down" (Ti).


  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by thescientist View Post
    Is he wrong?
    On this particular issue, he's providing a decent description to a noob about NTJs and NTPs.

    What I was referring to was the fact that, a couple weeks ago, I saw him make one of the most ridiculously inaccurate claims about functions that I've ever seen, which made me realize that he really doesn't have the strongest grasp of function theory.

    Sadly, with Sim banned for two months, this site has lost one of its few rather authoritative (if abrasive) voices on the theory.

  10. #50
    Senior Member thescientist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Read these two descriptions:

    INTJ
    INTP

    Whichever one rings more true, that is likely the one you are.

    You should listen to Tesla about the J/P testing issues: cuz she's right.

    After that, it gets more complicated.

    There are basically two schools of thought:

    - One says that NTs can use all four attitude functions (Ni, Te, Ne, Ti) to various degrees, with Ni and Te usually pairing together as NiTe (INTJ) or TeNi (ENTJ), and Ne and Ti pairing together as NeTi (ENTP) or TiNe (INTP). If you normally use some pairing of Ni and Te as your first two functions, then Ne and Ti would be the "shadow" functions of your first two functions; if you use some pairing of Ne and Ti as your first two functions, then Ni and Te would be the "shadow" functions of your first two functions. The greater degree to which you use your shadow functions, the more balanced your J/P would be.

    - The other says that using one's shadow functions almost never happens.

    Neither side really has proof.

    They bicker about this issue endlessly.

    To review:

    1. Listen to what Tesla said about the testing problem.
    2. Read the INTJ and INTP descriptions from personalitypage.com
    3. Listen to what Tesla said about learning more about the functions.
    4. After all that, start coming up with your own theories about what J/P balance and shadow function usage. As an NTJ, you'll likely believe that shadow function usage is possible, as NTJs like to "open possibilities up" (Ni), whereas NTPs like to "close possibilities down" (Ti).

    Thanks for the info about the two points of view on the function pairings. Interesting.... I've still got a lot to learn about MBTI.

    I had read those pages before. INTJ always resonated more with me.

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