• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

[ENTP] What does an unhealthy ENTP look like (if there's even such a thing)?

Amethyst

¡MI TORTA!
Joined
May 9, 2010
Messages
2,191
MBTI Type
ESTP
Enneagram
7w8
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
I had to. I want to know.

Answer me!
 

Weber

New member
Joined
Apr 5, 2010
Messages
202
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5
joker-773888.jpg
 

Tamske

Writing...
Joined
Oct 22, 2009
Messages
1,764
MBTI Type
ENTP
Of course there are...

A constant need for confirmation/affection.
Rationalizing away guilt.
Jumping from one idea to the other, thinking these ideas are the most precious in the world and fearing everybody else is out to steal them.
Finding creative but hopelessly impractical solutions to imaginary problems, creating real problems in the bargain.
Being totally certain of truths, even if they are only opinions, and defending them with a passion until the other caves in.

I confess... I'm a bit guilty of some of them. Especially the creating real problems part :D. And I can be really certain of something, too, even in the face of evidence.
 

teslashock

Geolectric
Joined
Oct 27, 2009
Messages
1,690
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
7w6
Onemoretime posted a thread a while back that contained a video of an ENTP man who was very psychologically unhealthy. He was never satisfied in anything he did and could not find anything to fulfill him, and this led to a complete lack of motivation. He grew so accustomed to growing bored by nearly everything he encountered that he just kind of gave up on attempting to fulfill his potential and chase his aspirations. Then on top of that, his tertiary Fe caused a bit of insecurity in him because he knew that the rest of the world was beginning to view him as an unfocused failure who could never accomplish anything meaningful.

It was just this very bad loop of Ne never being able to make a decision because it sees too many options and Fe wanting to find a path that would lead to optimized external validation, then inferior Si causing an apprehension that every one of his pursuits would end in the same way.

The greatest cause for this particular man's psychological unhealthiness was his inability to develop his auxiliary function, Ti, before moving on to Fe (and I'd say that many unhealthy types have not effectively developed there auxiliary function before moving on to their tertiary function, and this is likely the cause of their unhappiness).

If his Ti had developed well before Fe, he would be more able to focus at length on a particular interest to understand it well enough for Ne to do something novel with it. Also, auxiliary Ti would have helped him see that he does not need to let the outside world's judgments toward his whimsical, flighty nature be the primary motivating factor for settling down on one interest.
 

Katsuni

Priestess Of Syrinx
Joined
Aug 22, 2009
Messages
1,238
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
3w4?
This would've been me at one point in my life, due to circumstance at the time.

Nothing was ever good enough that I did, nothing ever valuable or wanted, everything was a failure, including myself.

Oddly enough, that wasn't actually TRUE, but that's whot I was TOLD repeatedly from my parents sooooo yeah, eventually yeu tend to believe such things. It involved breaking down pretty bad for a long time, and retreating mentally from the scene by referring to myself in third person for several years, because it was just easier to cope with everything when it wasn't really happening to "me", but more like a character in a book.

Sadly, I was a nicer person back then. More caring, more interested in bending over backwards to help other people, putting forth my absolute effort into doing my best at everything I did. In large part, due to the way I was treated, I've since become a bit bitter, and don't really care whot other people think quite as much. A negative comment still stings like hell, but it's not crippling like it once was. While I try to help others as much as before, it's not something entitled to everyone anymore either, yeu now have to earn that privilege. I put as much effort into helping yeu as yeu help yeurself; if yeu put all yeur effort into fixing yeur problems, I will be there to double yeur efforts. If yeu can't lift a finger to help yeurself, I won't either, anymore.

This was, unfortunately, a required development for survival. When younger, suicide seemed a very good option quite a few times... honestly the only thing that ever really stopped me, wasn't religion or revenge or anything like that, but the simple acknowledgment that I was going to die eventually anyway, so I was guaranteed to die regardless, and would see whot happened with the afterlife, if there is one, then, but that I only get to see life a single time, so should probably make use of that before it's gone.

In the unhealthy ENTP, the Ne goes into overdrive making wild accusations and coming up with bizarre conspiracy theories, from the simple, such as "everyone hates me", to the more elaborate "9/11 was a hoax"... and then Ti helps out by rationalizing the data and trying to fit it to prove the theory.

When yeu have both the capability of seeing things from a thousand different angles and can link many seemingly unrelated things together, and yeu have the ability to also rationalize data in a very streamlined way to make sense of the chaos yeur mind is coming up with, it can either lead to silly behaviour, such as yesterday when I went on for several minutes to a British friend insisting that polar bears pull our buses like sleds here through the snow, and we keep the elderly and handicapped up front for easier access when it's feeding time. It can also lead to deep profound understandings... obvious errors... and in some cases, deep damage to ones own self by being able to see the negative aspects in every situation, as well as the positive, but only focusing on the negative, no matter how obscure or bizarre it may be.

And considering an ENTP's habit of challenging anyone who tries to help, to prove they're right, most people just give up. Whenever I got stuck in a downward spiral, people would try to help; I'd refute their arguments, rationalize away their compliments, all in the typical need to see if they could hold up their argument or if they were just saying so without proof. Problem is... people are emotional... when they give a compliment, and yeu twist it into a cruelty against yeu instead, rather than explain themselves further, or meet yeu in the debate on yeur terms... they tend to give up. Which only proves yeu were right that they really do hate yeu in yeur mind.

It's not a good place to be in, and requires very specific care to bring one out of it, and it's something that most people aren't understanding of, or not willing to put the effort into fixing. Yeu see the other thread in this subforum of rainne asking how to deal with an ENTP when car shopping... now consider them acting the same aggressive manner and refuting everything when yeu say yeu care about them, or that they aren't a waste of flesh.

Problem then becomes, anything they say that's nice, gets twisted into a horrible insult. Anything insulting they say, may desperately be turned into a "They don't really mean that, they must mean something else", but the insults hold more weight when down like that, and it feels more like trying to desperately hold the walls apart with your bare hands when the walls are closing in like a bad indiana jones knockoff.

It's hard to crawl out of the hole, probably harder than for most people, since nothing good said will help, and really, the only key to defeating such is to have other people who care enough to endure the self defeat and persevere through it, and most people just don't understand or have that patience.

A way I heard something mentioned in a quote once that fits is, well this's loosely based on the quote, I don't remember it word for word, but it basically went "Sometimes, when people push you away, they really want you to leave them alone. Other times, they're just testing you, to see if you're willing to follow them into hell. I think I chose the wrong answer this time."

That's pretty much the mindset there... to see if they will keep trying, to test if they really care, to evaluate how much of whot they're saying is TRUE, and how much they just THINK is true. Yeu can't trust whot people say; people lie to themselves all the time. They lie to others subconsciously, trying to be 'nice'. When yeu are in the depths of despair, anything they say has to be validated, and the validation method clashes with most peoples' standard methods of thought, which generally means yeu just push them away until they don't come back.

I'd lost a close love during a rough part of my life that way even. They just gave up, they couldn't take it anymore, and they stopped caring. Rather than provide support, they just ran with it and encouraged it, and eventually left with saying some very hurtful things. That still hurts to this day, several years later. I understand the situation a little better now, after thinking it through in this post, but it really does still hurt.

If yeu ever know an ENTP that gets like this, the key to their pulling through is to argue back against their attempts to disprove yeur affections or kindness, and to persevere no matter how hard they try to push yeu away. They don't want to be left alone, they want to see how far yeu're willing to keep trying to help them. If they can't find a limit, they'll pull out of it. If they find yeu bend easily and give up after a short time, it's just going to cripple them further.

Anyways, having delt with this personally, that's whot it's like, at least to some degree. There's alot of things I really try not to think about of that time in my life, and I'm not going to cover the majority of it, but I hope that answers yeur question.
 

Nescio

New member
Joined
Dec 11, 2009
Messages
141
MBTI Type
ENTP
errr... I'm tempted to spout off physical symptoms of general unhealthiness
 

Resonance

Energizer Bunny
Joined
May 18, 2010
Messages
740
MBTI Type
INfj
Enneagram
6w5
They say things like "No, that's not a good idea."
 

kevrawlings

New member
Joined
Jun 1, 2010
Messages
137
MBTI Type
ISTP
ENTP gone bad . . . all you need to know . . . Heath Ledger's Joker from the Dark Knight.
 

kevrawlings

New member
Joined
Jun 1, 2010
Messages
137
MBTI Type
ISTP
Wait, oops, someone already beat me to that. How about Eminem's alter-ego Slim Shady? Definite ENTP.
 

Amethyst

¡MI TORTA!
Joined
May 9, 2010
Messages
2,191
MBTI Type
ESTP
Enneagram
7w8
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
And very good responses I've seen. I'm impressed, plus I can kinda relate a little.
 

Xenon

(blankpages)
Joined
Oct 5, 2009
Messages
832
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5
My dad is one. :(

Some of the posts so far describe him very well, some don't. There are a lot of "unhealthy" people out there, they are all different from each other, and the same is true when you look at those of a certain type. So I can talk about some of his troublesome behaviours and attitudes that might be related to type, but of course these will vary between unhealthy ENTPs.

I see the following in him:

1. Linking unrelated things together to come up with bizarre theories, then becoming intently focused on and stubborn about these theories

Like this...

In the unhealthy ENTP, the Ne goes into overdrive making wild accusations and coming up with bizarre conspiracy theories, from the simple, such as "everyone hates me", to the more elaborate "9/11 was a hoax"... and then Ti helps out by rationalizing the data and trying to fit it to prove the theory.

When yeu have both the capability of seeing things from a thousand different angles and can link many seemingly unrelated things together, and yeu have the ability to also rationalize data in a very streamlined way to make sense of the chaos yeur mind is coming up with, it can lead to... deep profound understandings... obvious errors...

...followed by this...

Being totally certain of truths, even if they are only opinions, and defending them with a passion until the other caves in.

He has never met a conspiracy theory he didn't get into, at least temporarily, and he's invented quite a few of his own: McDonalds puts sedatives in their fries, so kids eat them, behave more calmly, and parents are encouraged by their settling down and come to McDonalds again. Tim Hortons (a huge coffee and donut chain here in Canada) puts addictive drugs in their coffee, causing people to prefer it to other coffee. Serif fonts are usually used in print so that books are harder to read and poor people are discouraged from getting an education, causing them to remain poor. Doctors are completely full of shit, and health problems should be dealt with through herbs, diet, homeopathy and t'ai chi. He's pretty much intractable on all of these ideas.


2. Need for validation of his ideas or admiration of his intelligence and insight

This is heavily tied to his theories and ideas. He frequently preaches and pushes them, trying to get people to agree with him and admire him. I hate being around him when he gets like this. I get the sense that all he wants me there for is to sit at his feet and nod. I'm supposed to be his own personal bobblehead doll. A blank wall, for him to project himself onto. When I was younger, I just believed him, and he'd be happy with me and tell me how smart I was, how I "got it". Then when I got older and began to develop my own capacity for critical thinking things started to feel very wrong between us.

3. Jumping from one idea/plan to the other, not sticking with anything

Tamske and Tesla touched on this. He gets really excited, convinced against all reason that he's going to really change his life this time or even make a major impact on society, then things don't go as planned and he abandons it completely. Usually he blames someone else or society in general. Sometimes he gets depressed and cynical for awhile, and eventually he comes up with something else and gets just as enthused about that.

This description of Compensatory Narcissism fits him pretty well (I think it's been posted on this board recently about another alleged ENTP).

Onemoretime posted a thread a while back that contained a video of an ENTP man who was very psychologically unhealthy. ..

It was just this very bad loop of Ne never being able to make a decision because it sees too many options and Fe wanting to find a path that would lead to optimized external validation, then inferior Si causing an apprehension that every one of his pursuits would end in the same way.

The greatest cause for this particular man's psychological unhealthiness was his inability to develop his auxiliary function, Ti, before moving on to Fe...

I didn't catch that thread. I think for my dad it goes something like this: he comes up with his theory or idea, and instead of evaluating it logically (Ti) he feels compelled to push for others' attention, admiration and approval (Fe) to affirm their value.

I don't talk to him much anymore; he drains me. It's too bad because we could have great discussions when he wasn't giving me this kind of nonsense.
 

Tamske

Writing...
Joined
Oct 22, 2009
Messages
1,764
MBTI Type
ENTP
They say things like "No, that's not a good idea."
What? Is that possible? :shock: Does a pessimistic Ne exist? A malfunctioning one?
Either they are really mentally ill, or they aren't ENTPs...

My dad is one. :(
I'm sorry to hear that. :hug:

1. Linking unrelated things together to come up with bizarre theories, then becoming intently focused on and stubborn about these theories
He has never met a conspiracy theory he didn't get into, at least temporarily, and he's invented quite a few of his own: McDonalds puts sedatives in their fries, so kids eat them, behave more calmly, and parents are encouraged by their settling down and come to McDonalds again. Tim Hortons (a huge coffee and donut chain here in Canada) puts addictive drugs in their coffee, causing people to prefer it to other coffee. Serif fonts are usually used in print so that books are harder to read and poor people are discouraged from getting an education, causing them to remain poor. Doctors are completely full of shit, and health problems should be dealt with through herbs, diet, homeopathy and t'ai chi. He's pretty much intractable on all of these ideas.
Oh my. This sounds exactly like M.P., a more or less harmless madman who roams the university cities in Belgium. He's convinced every link is a message. (eg. the moon landing is fake because it's linked to Santa Claus who is fake too - don't ask me to explain the link). He distributes "proofs" that Pi² = g (the gravitational acceleration) and that rockets can't leave the athmosphere. I used to collect them and use them in my physics lessons :D If he distributes nonsense, it's my right to disprove his theses in class.

This description of Compensatory Narcissism fits him pretty well (I think it's been posted on this board recently about another alleged ENTP).
I didn't catch that thread. I think for my dad it goes something like this: he comes up with his theory or idea, and instead of evaluating it logically (Ti) he feels compelled to push for others' attention, admiration and approval (Fe) to affirm their value.
This sounds like a former co-worker of mine. We are almost (well we're physicists not psychologists) sure he's narcistic and I'm almost sure he's an ENTP too. What's this with narcistic ENTPs? Do unhealthy ENTPs generally tend to be narcistic rather than have other mental problems?

I'm thinking the answer is yes on this one... See eg. Anzeroffs post in the unhealthy ESFPs thread (http://www.typologycentral.com/foru...does-unhealthy-esfp-look-like.html#post625806) Negative Ne... check.
Unchecked by Ti... check.
Negative Fe... check.
Immature Si... don't know how that would look like. Remembering everything as if you're the victim of conspirations and jealousy?
 

Xenon

(blankpages)
Joined
Oct 5, 2009
Messages
832
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5
Oh my. This sounds exactly like M.P., a more or less harmless madman who roams the university cities in Belgium. He's convinced every link is a message. (eg. the moon landing is fake because it's linked to Santa Claus who is fake too - don't ask me to explain the link). He distributes "proofs" that Pi² = g (the gravitational acceleration) and that rockets can't leave the athmosphere. I used to collect them and use them in my physics lessons :D If he distributes nonsense, it's my right to disprove his theses in class.

Wow. Well, my dad doesn't go that out there, or write mathematical proofs. (Often he considers it proof enough that no one can prove him wrong). Those sound like some fun classes though.


This sounds like a former co-worker of mine. We are almost (well we're physicists not psychologists) sure he's narcistic and I'm almost sure he's an ENTP too. What's this with narcistic ENTPs? Do unhealthy ENTPs generally tend to be narcistic rather than have other mental problems?

Well, the link I posted above links this to the "inventive personality type", sounds ENTP-ish to me.

I think there's a lot of different kinds of narcissism though. I've looked at some descriptions of narcissistic parents, and they often sound quite different from my father. People describe fathers who were extremely controlling and critical and obsessed with their children doing everything "right". Mothers who were constantly pointing out their sacrifices, making children feel guilty, insisting children should take care of them emotionally. My dad wasn't like that. So I think different types can be narcissistic, but it can look quite different.

For my dad, it was more about, Look how clever I am! Look at my ideas! Get excited about it and admire it! And that's something I'd expect to find more of in ENTPs.

Of course, the severity of the narcissism also matters. Some of these other parents sound so deluded about themselves, completely convinced they are perfect and everyone else is the problem, no moments of clarity at all. My father does seem to have moments where I see some holes in this self-image he's created, when he seems to realize his own behaviour causes problems.

Negative Ne... check.
Unchecked by Ti... check.
Negative Fe... check.
Immature Si... don't know how that would look like. Remembering everything as if you're the victim of conspirations and jealousy?

That does sound like him. He does often insist his interpersonal problems are a result of people feeling "threatened" by him and deliberately trying to get rid of him. I'm not sure if that's Si though. I don't think everything can be explained by these functions, though plenty can.

Lenore Thomson exegesis wiki says this:

Where Si occupies the inferior position (as it does for those with dominant Ne), it is strongly tainted with unconscious contents. In these cases, Si may manifest as negative/malevolent images of eternal tendencies in people and situations that will not change. Such tendencies may well be present, but inferior Si sees the part as the whole. Inferior Si is also linked to feelings of nostalgia, overwhelmingly vivid internal imagery and a selective recall of facts and memories that are highly emotionally charged.

I see the bolded parts in him. I'm not sure about the rest.
 
Top