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[NT] Fellow NT's - Are you cold?

Zoom

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No. I am too curious and interested in the intricacies of the world to be considered cold. (Overly precise, efficient and to the point in many instances, maybe.) When in a quite common state of observation or deep in thought - when my "blank face" is on - yes.

If I'm thinking and walking down the street, I look forbidding, even though it's entirely possible I'm pondering on how I miss real playgrounds and the jungle gym, doing flips off of the bars...

Also, breaking into a random smile or grin - or laughing - after having a lack of expression for a while apparently creeps some people out. :coffee:
 

Coriolis

Si vis pacem, para bellum
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Do you perceive yourself as a cold person? What is your definition of "cold"?
I likely fit most definitions of "cold" posted here. I am never quite sure exactly what is meant by "cold" and "warm" in describing interpersonal relations, though, perhaps partly since these designations are so subjective. As others have mentioned, I am personally turned off by overly "warm" people -- ones that are intrusive, overly intimate on first acquaintance, regale me with inane verbal diarrhea, insist upon touching. I can also often sense when an external warm appearance is not genuine, or worse, a mask for manipulation and deceit. Then it feels colder to me than blunt honesty.

How about others? Do they perceive you as a cold person?
I honestly do not know. I receive very little feedback from others. I have been called analytical, critical, harsh, detached, unemotional, but not that often. On the other hand, I am almost never called warm, friendly, caring, etc. etc.

If you answered yes to the first question, does your coldness push people away?
Probably, and if so, just as well for the most part. I tend to mind my own business and ignore others, beyond a basic situational awareness. Keeping people at a distance minimizes distraction from random, superficial encounters. People who really need to get my attention have no problem doing so.

Are you warm to certain people only? If so, who are those people and why are you warm to them?I am probably warmer with close relatives and friends. By that, I mean a bit more relaxed and less formal; more likely to discuss personal matters and joke around, and to be physically affectionate. It is an issue of energy and privacy. I do not have the energy for the casual, superficial encounters that so many people seem to thrive on. I prefer to save it for those few close to me. Also, my personal, inner self is something I will share with only these select few. I am willing to share more parts of myself with them because we both find it rewarding, and it builds our relationship.

I mean, I'm kind, I help people out, I'm friendly and usually at least appear sympathetic, even when I'm thinking "of course it went wrong, you fucking truncheon!"

But it doesn't come from empathy or emotional attachment. Too many people assume it does, then spit all kinds of hell at me when their delusion's exposed . . .

The other perceptive thing that was said about me was that though I'm a Good Person, I'm not always a Nice Person.
I have often made and felt this distinction myself. It bothers me sometimes when someone expresses overmuch thanks or appreciation for something I have done, when it is clear that they have not understood my motivation. I do try to help when I can, just not always for the reasons others expect, or would have in the same situation. I used to wonder if doing the right thing for the "wrong" reason devalued the action somehow, but the benefit to the individual helped was the same, so no matter.

This reminds me of something someone said to me recently: "It's like you're inside-out, you show your worst side. You're the opposite of most people - they act friendly and caring but really don't give a damn; you really give a damn but act like you don't care".
Exactly. Sometimes people are surprised to find out not simply how much I do, in fact, care about some things; but also how much I will actually do to help. It is also sometimes easier to get what you want when you do not let on how much you do care about it.
 

proximo

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A total lack of empathy does render a person more capable of cruelty, of course.

If anything, it renders them LESS capable. When I think of my daughter (who has Asperger's), she's completely incapable of premeditated cruelty. She just doesn't have the ability to think that far ahead or that creatively. If you ask her how she could be cruel to someone, the most threatening thing she can come up with is "hide their Pokémon toys", and you have to talk her through the concept to get her that far.
 

Resonance

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If anything, it renders them LESS capable. When I think of my daughter (who has Asperger's), she's completely incapable of premeditated cruelty. She just doesn't have the ability to think that far ahead or that creatively. If you ask her how she could be cruel to someone, the most threatening thing she can come up with is "hide their Pokémon toys", and you have to talk her through the concept to get her that far.
Asperger's makes you completely incapable of premeditated a-lot-of-things. This is not a good example.

I'm also a little bit perturbed that you've actively tried to get her to think about it, but that's just me.
 

spin-1/2-nuclei

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Do you perceive yourself as a cold person? What is your definition of "cold"?

No I don't. My definition of cold has two parts lack of emotion and incapable empathy/sympathy for another person.

How about others? Do they perceive you as a cold person?
Yes they do...

If you answered yes to the first question, does your coldness push people away?
I don't consider myself cold but those that don't know me well do, and yes it pushes them away.

Are you warm to certain people only? If so, who are those people and why are you warm to them?
My best friends know me better so they don't perceive me as cold.


Do you think NT's are cold?
I think it depends.

Are your NT friends cold?
No, but other people accuse them of being cold as well.


So personally I think the my friends and I are accused of being "cold" by others that don't know us because we are not fitting their definition of what a "warm" person should behave like. Personally I don't see a need to become emotional to prove that I am sorry about, understanding, sympathizing etc with whatever a person is going through. Just because someone doesn't express a feeling the same way as others doesn't mean that they are void of those feelings and thinking and acting with feelings is also not a prerequisite for actually having them. This is just my two cents.
 

ZPowers

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You can't be totally cold if you're full of hate. And MTV gets me seething in less than a minute at any time, so that's not too bad.
 

proximo

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Asperger's makes you completely incapable of premeditated a-lot-of-things. This is not a good example.

No, it was a perfectly good example of why a lack of empathy does not necessarily or automatically make a person more capable of cruelty, and how it can in fact make them LESS capable of cruelty. Wherever that lack of empathy comes from, be it autism, a personality disorder, immaturity or self-absorption, the point still stands that it alone does not make a person more likely to be cruel. What I'm saying is that it's not wise to infer or predict other, unseen qualities in a person on the basis of those you have seen. It'd be no different to simply judging a person for what you merely theorise or imagine that they might do. We ought to be judged (if at all) by what we do, not by what somebody assumes we might do, based on something we can't do! :)

I'm also a little bit perturbed that you've actively tried to get her to think about it, but that's just me.

Ah no, you're not alone, parents of autistic kids get their strategies and methods judged by random, snarky strangers all the time. Just goes with the territory. None taken. :)
 

Nescio

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Its a hundred degrees outside and the air in this room is broken... I'm rather hot.

-Anyway-

Do you perceive yourself as a cold person? What is your definition of "cold"?
I try not to be cold. Being friendly is a better way to make the world more complelled to be nice to you.


How about others? Do they perceive you as a cold person? I don't know. really.

If you answered yes to the first question, does your coldness push people away?
I'm going to say... yes... just because :p

Are you warm to certain people only? If so, who are those people and why are you warm to them? I'm certainly am nicer to some people more than others... somepeople are just a pain to deal with... so you smile and nod and make no promises or offer anything

(Also, dear Madmins: If this is a redundant thread, please delete it!)

its just convenient when people have a good opinion of you.

if you find that reason for friendlyness/warmness to be a little cold, I'd have to agree... especially because I'm not at all bothered by that.
 

Resonance

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No, it was a perfectly good example of why a lack of empathy does not necessarily or automatically make a person more capable of cruelty, and how it can in fact make them LESS capable of cruelty. Wherever that lack of empathy comes from, be it autism, a personality disorder, immaturity or self-absorption, the point still stands that it alone does not make a person more likely to be cruel. What I'm saying is that it's not wise to infer or predict other, unseen qualities in a person on the basis of those you have seen. It'd be no different to simply judging a person for what you merely theorise or imagine that they might do. We ought to be judged (if at all) by what we do, not by what somebody assumes we might do, based on something we can't do! :)
Oh. I see we've had a bit of a semantic dispute.

Certainly, it puts a damper on one's ability to be intentionally cruel if they are not able to understand the concept of cruelty. But it also frees up the possibility to be unintentionally cruel, as one can hurt others without knowing it and not learn from that.

I suppose it comes down to one's definition of 'more likely'. Statistically, are more acts of cruelty committed by people who lack empathy? 85-90% of incarcerated criminals qualify for ASPD...

Ah no, you're not alone, parents of autistic kids get their strategies and methods judged by random, snarky strangers all the time. Just goes with the territory. None taken. :)
Ehm, it has nothing to do with autism in this case... I suppose, judging by the outcome, it would have been even worse to present the situation to a neurotypical child.

I am sorry that you have to deal with that, though.
 

Reinaldo_Ramone

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I'm to the extremes - Cold to those I hate, hot to those I sympathize with =:)
 

Salomé

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If anything, it renders them LESS capable. When I think of my daughter (who has Asperger's), she's completely incapable of premeditated cruelty. She just doesn't have the ability to think that far ahead or that creatively. If you ask her how she could be cruel to someone, the most threatening thing she can come up with is "hide their Pokémon toys", and you have to talk her through the concept to get her that far.

Some have suggested that Asperger's sufferers have too much empathy, rather than not enough...

I was thinking of people with narcissistic personality disorder. The kind of person who could rip the baby out of a pregant woman's belly and leave her to bleed to death. Empathy checks selfish impulses.
A lack of it doesn't mean someone will be cruel, but they will very likely be less inhibited about acts of cruelty/selfishness. In the same way that someone incapable of experiencing physical pain is more likely to injure themselves.
 

proximo

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Some have suggested that Asperger's sufferers have too much empathy, rather than not enough...

Yeah, it's funny, how many people suggest so many things about Asperger's... I'd like to know then, how my daughter seeing somebody crying and sobbing and complaining because she's taken something of theirs without asking and broken it, as someone being "unreasonable" and "anal", and "blubbing for no reason", and the person asking her to apologise as "stupid and illogical" can be a result of "too much empathy" :)

I was thinking of people with narcissistic personality disorder. The kind of person who could rip the baby out of a pregant woman's belly and leave her to bleed to death. Empathy checks selfish impulses.
A lack of it doesn't mean someone will be cruel, but they will very likely be less inhibited about acts of cruelty/selfishness. In the same way that someone incapable of experiencing physical pain is more likely to injure themselves.

Hmm... firstly, it doesn't always check selfish impulses... I've known some Fe-type bullies in my time who've seemed to positively revel in the pain and hurt they labour to produce in others... And secondly, it's not the only thing that can check them - fear of consequences (more selfishness) can be another.

I'm not overly endowed with empathy myself, but I have a lot of philosophical and non-empathy related reasons as to why I don't hurt others if I can help it. Their pain doesn't hurt me in the slightest in the same way that it does an empathic person. It hurts me indirectly in that, if I'm the cause of it, it causes me to reflect on what kind of a person I am, with an unfavourable conclusion, and the loss of my self-respect due to that is not a pleasant feeling. But this is why "pain and hurt" in movies doesn't affect me - a) it's pretend and b) I didn't cause it. For philosophical/humanist reasons I've done charity work aimed at reducing pain, stress, misery etc in other people's lives, and it's because I've been unaffected myself, emotionally, by the things I see in that kind of work, that I've been able to help in ways and at times when those too troubled by what they see have had to leave the room.
 
R

ReflecTcelfeR

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I agree with Morgan on this one. Empathy is a safeguard against cruetly, because without it, if you can logically reason why this act of cruelty is justified there wouldn't be much stopping you after that... besides society, but that's after the crime/act is committed.
 
R

ReflecTcelfeR

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That might be more along the lines of lack of sympathy though.
 

proximo

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I agree with Morgan on this one. Empathy is a safeguard against cruetly, because without it, if you can logically reason why this act of cruelty is justified there wouldn't be much stopping you after that... besides society, but that's after the crime/act is committed.

I once heard an ENFJ say "...so my empathy allowed me to level back at her the exact pain she caused me. She deserved it, and though it hurt me to do it, I feel she's learned a valuable lesson about respecting the values of others."
 

Fluffywolf

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I consider myself an honest person, and in many ways warmer than most people that are believed to be warm people by other people in general...

However, other people consider me a cold person.
 

Billy

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Do you perceive yourself as a cold person? What is your definition of "cold"?

How about others? Do they perceive you as a cold person?

If you answered yes to the first question, does your coldness push people away?

Are you warm to certain people only? If so, who are those people and why are you warm to them?

(Also, dear Madmins: If this is a redundant thread, please delete it!)

NF's, if you happen to stumble by:

Do you think NT's are cold?

Are your NT friends cold?

How would you define "coldness"?

I wouldnt say cold in general... but have a much bigger chance of being cold. I have dated a number of NT women and by far they were the most cutthroat and heartless and self centered. On the other hand, they are also very devoted and willing to put in the effort when things are working.

I just doorslammed an INTJ girl I REALLY liked a lot this morning. We were trying to remain friends, but that cold NT nature kicked in and I wasnt a priority, I couldnt even get a courtesy phone call when plans were falling through, she is very cold hearted.
 
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