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  1. #71
    Energizer Bunny Resonance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proximo View Post
    No, it was a perfectly good example of why a lack of empathy does not necessarily or automatically make a person more capable of cruelty, and how it can in fact make them LESS capable of cruelty. Wherever that lack of empathy comes from, be it autism, a personality disorder, immaturity or self-absorption, the point still stands that it alone does not make a person more likely to be cruel. What I'm saying is that it's not wise to infer or predict other, unseen qualities in a person on the basis of those you have seen. It'd be no different to simply judging a person for what you merely theorise or imagine that they might do. We ought to be judged (if at all) by what we do, not by what somebody assumes we might do, based on something we can't do!
    Oh. I see we've had a bit of a semantic dispute.

    Certainly, it puts a damper on one's ability to be intentionally cruel if they are not able to understand the concept of cruelty. But it also frees up the possibility to be unintentionally cruel, as one can hurt others without knowing it and not learn from that.

    I suppose it comes down to one's definition of 'more likely'. Statistically, are more acts of cruelty committed by people who lack empathy? 85-90% of incarcerated criminals qualify for ASPD...

    Quote Originally Posted by proximo View Post
    Ah no, you're not alone, parents of autistic kids get their strategies and methods judged by random, snarky strangers all the time. Just goes with the territory. None taken.
    Ehm, it has nothing to do with autism in this case... I suppose, judging by the outcome, it would have been even worse to present the situation to a neurotypical child.

    I am sorry that you have to deal with that, though.
    The beauty of a living thing is not the atoms that go into it, but the way those atoms are put together. ~ rCoxI ~ INfj ~ 5w6 so/sp

  2. #72
    Junior Member Reinaldo_Ramone's Avatar
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    I'm to the extremes - Cold to those I hate, hot to those I sympathize with =

  3. #73
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proximo View Post
    If anything, it renders them LESS capable. When I think of my daughter (who has Asperger's), she's completely incapable of premeditated cruelty. She just doesn't have the ability to think that far ahead or that creatively. If you ask her how she could be cruel to someone, the most threatening thing she can come up with is "hide their Pokémon toys", and you have to talk her through the concept to get her that far.
    Some have suggested that Asperger's sufferers have too much empathy, rather than not enough...

    I was thinking of people with narcissistic personality disorder. The kind of person who could rip the baby out of a pregant woman's belly and leave her to bleed to death. Empathy checks selfish impulses.
    A lack of it doesn't mean someone will be cruel, but they will very likely be less inhibited about acts of cruelty/selfishness. In the same way that someone incapable of experiencing physical pain is more likely to injure themselves.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  4. #74
    Senior Member proximo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    Some have suggested that Asperger's sufferers have too much empathy, rather than not enough...
    Yeah, it's funny, how many people suggest so many things about Asperger's... I'd like to know then, how my daughter seeing somebody crying and sobbing and complaining because she's taken something of theirs without asking and broken it, as someone being "unreasonable" and "anal", and "blubbing for no reason", and the person asking her to apologise as "stupid and illogical" can be a result of "too much empathy"

    I was thinking of people with narcissistic personality disorder. The kind of person who could rip the baby out of a pregant woman's belly and leave her to bleed to death. Empathy checks selfish impulses.
    A lack of it doesn't mean someone will be cruel, but they will very likely be less inhibited about acts of cruelty/selfishness. In the same way that someone incapable of experiencing physical pain is more likely to injure themselves.
    Hmm... firstly, it doesn't always check selfish impulses... I've known some Fe-type bullies in my time who've seemed to positively revel in the pain and hurt they labour to produce in others... And secondly, it's not the only thing that can check them - fear of consequences (more selfishness) can be another.

    I'm not overly endowed with empathy myself, but I have a lot of philosophical and non-empathy related reasons as to why I don't hurt others if I can help it. Their pain doesn't hurt me in the slightest in the same way that it does an empathic person. It hurts me indirectly in that, if I'm the cause of it, it causes me to reflect on what kind of a person I am, with an unfavourable conclusion, and the loss of my self-respect due to that is not a pleasant feeling. But this is why "pain and hurt" in movies doesn't affect me - a) it's pretend and b) I didn't cause it. For philosophical/humanist reasons I've done charity work aimed at reducing pain, stress, misery etc in other people's lives, and it's because I've been unaffected myself, emotionally, by the things I see in that kind of work, that I've been able to help in ways and at times when those too troubled by what they see have had to leave the room.
    I'm male and over 30, FYI.
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  5. #75
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    If you're cold, you should turn up the thermostat.

  6. #76
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    I agree with Morgan on this one. Empathy is a safeguard against cruetly, because without it, if you can logically reason why this act of cruelty is justified there wouldn't be much stopping you after that... besides society, but that's after the crime/act is committed.

  7. #77
    ReflecTcelfeR
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    That might be more along the lines of lack of sympathy though.

  8. #78
    Senior Member proximo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecttcelfeR View Post
    I agree with Morgan on this one. Empathy is a safeguard against cruetly, because without it, if you can logically reason why this act of cruelty is justified there wouldn't be much stopping you after that... besides society, but that's after the crime/act is committed.
    I once heard an ENFJ say "...so my empathy allowed me to level back at her the exact pain she caused me. She deserved it, and though it hurt me to do it, I feel she's learned a valuable lesson about respecting the values of others."
    I'm male and over 30, FYI.
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  9. #79
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    I consider myself an honest person, and in many ways warmer than most people that are believed to be warm people by other people in general...

    However, other people consider me a cold person.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  10. #80
    Crazy Diamond Billy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by copperfish17 View Post
    Do you perceive yourself as a cold person? What is your definition of "cold"?

    How about others? Do they perceive you as a cold person?

    If you answered yes to the first question, does your coldness push people away?

    Are you warm to certain people only? If so, who are those people and why are you warm to them?

    (Also, dear Madmins: If this is a redundant thread, please delete it!)

    NF's, if you happen to stumble by:

    Do you think NT's are cold?

    Are your NT friends cold?

    How would you define "coldness"?
    I wouldnt say cold in general... but have a much bigger chance of being cold. I have dated a number of NT women and by far they were the most cutthroat and heartless and self centered. On the other hand, they are also very devoted and willing to put in the effort when things are working.

    I just doorslammed an INTJ girl I REALLY liked a lot this morning. We were trying to remain friends, but that cold NT nature kicked in and I wasnt a priority, I couldnt even get a courtesy phone call when plans were falling through, she is very cold hearted.
    Ground control to Major Tom

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