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  1. #161
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proximo View Post
    Yeah, it's funny, how many people suggest so many things about Asperger's... I'd like to know then, how my daughter seeing somebody crying and sobbing and complaining because she's taken something of theirs without asking and broken it, as someone being "unreasonable" and "anal", and "blubbing for no reason", and the person asking her to apologise as "stupid and illogical" can be a result of "too much empathy"
    I don't see it as incompatible. This is the article I was thinking of. I'm sure you've seen it.

    Hmm... firstly, it doesn't always check selfish impulses... I've known some Fe-type bullies in my time who've seemed to positively revel in the pain and hurt they labour to produce in others... And secondly, it's not the only thing that can check them - fear of consequences (more selfishness) can be another.
    I don't associate empathy with Fe. Fe-doms can be incredibly cruel and calculating.
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  2. #162
    Senior Member proximo's Avatar
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    Ah OK then MLF, looks like we're working from different definitions of empathy. Semantics alert!
    I'm male and over 30, FYI.
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  3. #163
    Energizer Bunny Resonance's Avatar
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    Perhaps we're mixing up empathy and sympathy?
    The beauty of a living thing is not the atoms that go into it, but the way those atoms are put together. ~ rCoxI ~ INfj ~ 5w6 so/sp

  4. #164
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proximo View Post
    I once heard an ENFJ say "...so my empathy allowed me to level back at her the exact pain she caused me. She deserved it, and though it hurt me to do it, I feel she's learned a valuable lesson about respecting the values of others."
    I'm NFJ and don't relate to this one bit. But then I've never seen the value/usefulness of getting back at people in that way, and I don't relate to revenge acts/behaviors at all. It doesn't seem constructive to me, it seems petty/immature, and you cannot guarantee in any way that the person is going to 'learn' what you think you've taught them to learn.

    (I realize this topic has long since moved beyond this post, but when I opened the thread it took me to this page!! haha.)
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  5. #165
    Reason vs Being ragashree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blairvoyant View Post
    Perhaps we're mixing up empathy and sympathy?
    Most people do, it's nothing new...
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  6. #166
    Energizer Bunny Resonance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    I'm NFJ and don't relate to this one bit. But then I've never seen the value/usefulness of getting back at people in that way, and I don't relate to revenge acts/behaviors at all. It doesn't seem constructive to me, it seems petty/immature, and you cannot guarantee in any way that the person is going to 'learn' what you think you've taught them to learn.

    (I realize this topic has long since moved beyond this post, but when I opened the thread it took me to this page!! haha.)
    No, it's very relevant...

    How do you help people to change how they treat others?

    also, would you consider yourself an optimist or a pessimist/'realist'...
    The beauty of a living thing is not the atoms that go into it, but the way those atoms are put together. ~ rCoxI ~ INfj ~ 5w6 so/sp

  7. #167
    Senior Member proximo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    I'm NFJ and don't relate to this one bit. But then I've never seen the value/usefulness of getting back at people in that way, and I don't relate to revenge acts/behaviors at all. It doesn't seem constructive to me, it seems petty/immature, and you cannot guarantee in any way that the person is going to 'learn' what you think you've taught them to learn.

    (I realize this topic has long since moved beyond this post, but when I opened the thread it took me to this page!! haha.)
    You're a NICE NFJ though cascadeco See posts subsequent to that one for Billy's ...interesting demonstration of just how very much he relates to it
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  8. #168
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blairvoyant View Post
    No, it's very relevant...

    How do you help people to change how they treat others?

    also, would you consider yourself an optimist or a pessimist/'realist'...
    I think people will only change if they themselves WANT to change. Thus you can't directly initiate change, nor can you try to 'convince' them that your way is better; it may cause them to dig their heels in even further (and this also begs the question, how does one decide whether one way is 'right' or not? Ultimately a lot of this can boil down to individually constructed value systems as well as priorities). I suppose mbti could assist on some level...knowing the 'language' the individual speaks (logic vs emotion, etc, although this thread is case in point that it isn't that black and white), and appealing to them in that manner.

    I don't think I'm the one to ask HOW to help people change, as again, I don't believe they WILL change unless they decide for themselves that there is value in changing, and they desire to change. So, unless someone actively seeks help/advice, or reaches that point of wanting to change, I think it's kinda pointless to try to nudge them. That's just my general view on the matter; I suppose on a case-by-case basis I might vary that stance a little bit. Edit: I might make clear or tangent off into why *I* do things the way I do, because that's keeping it real and I'm just sharing my views on things, and then it's up to them to grab onto tendrils of that if they so choose. If nothing else I've planted a seed.

    I think just showing by example, by living your own life in a positive way, showing by your OWN action/behavior what you deem right, works more wonders than active change. There will always be those observing who may decide, of their own volition, that some other way of being is worth exploring.

    Which is why I don't believe in the concept of Revenge. It seems so hypocritical. You're basically acting out the very behavior you found unacceptable in another - you're stooping to 'their' level, if you will.

    I know I didn't answer your question; I would have to give more thought to methods of actually trying to nudge people in a different direction - for example, in the case of a family member or other individual who you care about or who you can't and won't remove from your life and need to work with instead.

    Re. optimism, pessimism, or realism, I think I am generally optimistic in terms of my own life, realistic regarding individual humans, and more pessimistic in terms of humans on a society/group-mode level.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  9. #169
    Member SinistralPal's Avatar
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    Do you perceive yourself as a cold person? What is your definition of "cold"?
    Actually. I have decided to answer the next question first.

    How about others? Do they perceive you as a cold person?
    Yes and no. See, my mom would love to say I am cold and heartless. Others say I show no emotion. A lot of people say I have a very strong Fe, and come across and bubbly and cheery. But think of it as a nice pink satin veil over stone cold rock. My emotions never ever leak out.

    Back to the first question.

    Do you perceive yourself as a cold person? What is your definition of "cold"?
    I think that my first impression is of a friendly and warm person. However, I would say that's because people misconstrue my ENTP 7w8. I am into fun and enjoyment, and I love being around people. However, I never find it appropriate to cry or whine or even lean on other people that much besides my immediate family, and perhaps my boyfriends. Even with my close friends, I don't show "negative" emotions often.

    If you answered yes to the first question, does your coldness push people away?
    I heard I can be intimidating. However, I don't think it pushes people away, because of well, the pink satin veil hiding the rock. So, if you are an acquaintance of mine, you might think I am just really outgoing and funny and fun to hang around. If you are a close friend of mine, you might think of me as confident, intelligent, and a bit domineering. Finally, if you are REALLY close to me, you might see that sometimes I get anxious and nervous about my future and my place in the world. But, then I go back to my narcissistic ways. Ha


    Are you warm to certain people only? If so, who are those people and why are you warm to them?
    To me this question seems to be leading towards a hypothesized answer of cold to people you don't know well, and warm to those who are close. However, I have to say, the closer people are to me, the "colder" I get. It's almost as though I can let my guard down, and just be the ice cold bitch that I want to be. Someone explained it to me - what's the difference between an NF and an NT in relationships? NT's get more and more assured as time progresses, whereas NF's never leave that tinge of doubt behind. For me, I would say, the close I get, the more comfortable I am with people seeing my "cold rock" and not afraid of intimidating them, or pushing them away.
    01010101011011100110100101110100011110010010000001 10001101100001011011100010000001101111011011100110 11000111100100100000011000100110010100100000011011 01011000010110111001101001011001100110010101110011 01110100011001010110010000100000011000100111100100 10000001110100011010000110010100100000010000100110 10010110111001100001011100100111100100101110

  10. #170
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proximo View Post
    You're a NICE NFJ though cascadeco See posts subsequent to that one for Billy's ...interesting demonstration of just how very much he relates to it
    Oh, I did. Which is a reason I felt the need to post... it has little to do with the T/F thing.

    (and thanks )
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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