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  1. #131
    Crazy Diamond Billy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proximo View Post
    No you don't understand, Blair. They respect us BY manipulating us. It's for our own good. They're allowed to ignore core principles and values when they're teaching someone a lesson. Duh.

    :SaiyanSmilie_anim:
    Whos core principals? Screw privacy, if I love someone enough to manipulate them you better believe that some thin veneer of social privacy is not going to stop me from trying to push them along a different path that I believe would help them along.

    Do you have children at all? Did you have parents? This is how we teach people certain things.
    Ground control to Major Tom

  2. #132
    ReflecTcelfeR
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    And if they deny the wish to change?

  3. #133
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy View Post
    I think Fs need to listen to Ts and take a page from their book when it comes to dealing with reality

    I think Ts need to listen to Fs and take a page from their book when it comes to dealing with people.
    Except that 50% of people are T's.
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  4. #134
    Crazy Diamond Billy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecttcelfeR View Post
    Reality only bites back as hard as necessary. If you fail an important test, reality will teach you to study more. If you kill someone, the reality would probably be equal to that. Reality doesn't have feelings. Unless you consider the rules that society has made being reality... then yes it does feel.
    Reality can be cancer, no one deserves that... or something else, thats the point. We dont always get what we deserve we get what we get, which is why its important for us to prepare for the reality by teaching one and other how to deal with certain aspects of it. I wouldnt send my son down the river in a kayak and say well I never showed him anything about it because I didnt want to push lessons on him, if he breaks his face on a river rock I guess he will just learn to ask for directions next time... yeah no.
    Ground control to Major Tom

  5. #135
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecttcelfeR View Post
    I for one can't learn if I'm not being manipulated somehow.
    Yeah, that's the silly part from the NT perspective. Talk to us straight. From our viewpoint, there isn't a need to manipulate. Just lay it out there in plain terms and let's work through it. Manipulation is so - what's the word - backhanded? sneaky? Why would I want to trust someone who is ready and willing to manipulate me and play with my emotions?
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

  6. #136
    ReflecTcelfeR
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    I don't think you are talking about reality. Reality doesn't fight back, reality doesn't give. Reality isn't the cancer. Reality is the explanation of what affects the cancer will have on you. It isn't malicious.

  7. #137
    Senior Member proximo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy View Post
    Whos core principals?
    Okay, crazy person alert. Stop Press. Thinks freewill, privacy and other human rights are silly and to be overridden at will for benefit of subject.

    Do you have children at all? Did you have parents? This is how we teach people certain things.
    The innocent have nothing to hide, and Big Brother knows best, right?

    Speak for yourself, plz.
    I'm male and over 30, FYI.
    Preferences: 20% Extravert, 98% Intuitive, 68% Thinker, 17% Perceiving

  8. #138
    Energizer Bunny Resonance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proximo View Post
    No you don't understand, Blair. They respect us BY manipulating us. It's for our own good. They're allowed to ignore core principles and values when they're teaching someone a lesson. Duh.

    :SaiyanSmilie_anim:
    I'm just full of those today, it seems!
    Quote Originally Posted by Billy View Post
    When I see a misanthrope I see someone in serious emotional pain. That makes me want to help, NFJ and all. But dont think its me being arrogant, I help people push their cars out of snow banks, I cut my old neighbors lawn for free when I do mine, I befriend people with little to no friends, its just the way I get down.
    So because you go out of your way to help people, everyone else should too?

    That still doesn't explain the 'respecting other people's values' thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Billy View Post
    Whos core principals? Screw privacy, if I love someone enough to manipulate them you better believe that some thin veneer of social privacy is not going to stop me from trying to push them along a different path that I believe would help them along.

    Do you have children at all? Did you have parents? This is how we teach people certain things.
    Yes, my dad is INFJ and my aunt is ENFP and they're both very unsubtle about it. They make arguments like yours (oh I am such a good person so obviously you should be the same) and it just doesn't convince me, ever. I think it causes more pain for them than for me, because I can't be what they want me to be. As for me, I'm just me... with or without their approval. It bothers me that they can't hear me when I try to explain it, but it's not like I ever expected them to.
    The beauty of a living thing is not the atoms that go into it, but the way those atoms are put together. ~ rCoxI ~ INfj ~ 5w6 so/sp

  9. #139
    ReflecTcelfeR
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    Yeah, that's the silly part from the NT perspective. Talk to us straight. From our viewpoint, there isn't a need to manipulate. Just lay it out there in plain terms and let's work through it. Manipulation is so - what's the word - backhanded? sneaky? Why would I want to trust someone who is ready and willing to manipulate me and play with my emotions?
    Exactly. It's easier to deal with a problem directly, however it is true that some don't wish to take this approach because of fear, or some other reason... so another avenue must be taken, perhaps manipulation isn't the best word to use, as it has a pretty bad connotation. I would say perhaps a 'bargaining' approach would be better? Win-win situations and all that. No one has to feel hurt.

  10. #140
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy View Post
    Reality can be cancer, no one deserves that... or something else, thats the point. We dont always get what we deserve we get what we get, which is why its important for us to prepare for the reality by teaching one and other how to deal with certain aspects of it. I wouldnt send my son down the river in a kayak and say well I never showed him anything about it because I didnt want to push lessons on him, if he breaks his face on a river rock I guess he will just learn to ask for directions next time... yeah no.
    Just show your son how to kayak. Simple. Don't "teach him a lesson" or "take the backdoor approach to making sure he gets it". Just take him out and say in plain terms, "This is how you do it son!" Teach him. But, don't manipulate him.
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

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