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  1. #71
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Misty_Mountain_Rose View Post
    In the true understanding of Yin and Yang, masculine and feminine are ONE, not two.
    I like this elaboration from Integral Theory:

    Have you ever seen a caduceus (the symbol of the medical profession)? It’s a staff with two serpents crisscrossing it, and wings at the top of the staff. The staff itself represents the central spinal column; where the serpents cross the staff represents the individual chakras moving up the spine from the lowest to the highest; and the two serpents themselves represent solar and lunar (or masculine and feminine) energies at each of the chakras.

    That’s the crucial point. The 7 chakras, which are simply a more complex version of the 3 simple levels or stages, represent 7 levels of consciousness and energy available to all human beings. (The first three chakras—food, sex, and power—are roughly stage 1; chakras four and five—relational heart and communication—are basically stage 2; and chakras six and seven—psychic and spiritual—are the epitome of stage 3). The important point here is that, according to the traditions, each of those 7 levels has a masculine and feminine aspect, type, or “voice.” Neither masculine nor feminine is higher or better; they are two equivalent types at each of the levels of consciousness.
    This means, for example, that with chakra 3 (the egocentric-power chakra), there is a masculine and feminine version of the same chakra: at that chakra-level, males tend toward power exercised autonomously (“My way or the highway!”), women tend toward power exercised communally or socially (“Do it this way or I won’t talk to you”). And so on with the other major chakras, each of them having a solar and lunar, or masculine and feminine dimension; neither is more fundamental, neither can be ignored. At the 7th chakra, however, notice that the masculine and feminine serpents both disappear into their ground or source. Masculine and feminine meet and unite at the crown—they literally become one. And that is what Gilligan found with her stage-4 moral development: the two voices in each person become integrated, so that there is a paradoxical union of autonomy and relationship, rights and responsibilities, agency and communion, wisdom and compassion, justice and mercy, masculine and feminine.
    I see "masculine" and "feminine" as labels or containers for a set of concepts and qualities and types of energy. They're almost Platonic Ideals. As such, they never exist in pure form IRL. An extreme expression of one or the other actually represents a pathological repression.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  2. #72
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Misty_Mountain_Rose View Post
    I think I short-circuited for a minute.
    My apologies for the short-circuit!

    The quote is the pendulum swung wide, then coming back to center - the whole concept of what is the feminine and masculine (and what is embodied in each) is meant to come to that center point.

    The quote is not meant to be uplifting to women per se. And it's not intended to be about "us vs them" or engaged in a highly literal sense.

    I like this quote because it's directed to the masculine, and a reminder that much of what we admire (and are taught to admire) is masculine, even as women, but much of what we need to find balance is often what we initially reject (emotions, tears, softness) ...

    Osho actively rejected inherited stereotypes and belief systems ... he was raised in India, with both caste and gender inequalities prevalent in daily life.

    The quote's intention is not as black & white as you are interpreting it, that's all.

    The Yin/Yang concept though isn't about division, its about unity. About one not being able to exist without the other.
    Not unity, so much as balance. In balance with each other. Needing the other. Acknowledging the other.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  3. #73
    One day and the next Rainne's Avatar
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    Difficult to change something hard-wired.

  4. #74
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Hmmmm..

    I am not afraid to state my belief in the feminine and the masculine.

    Just like I don't deny the existence of estrogen and androgens, and these hormones effects on human behavior and physiological structure.

    But, I have my own ideas of what constitute femininity and masculinity as human behaviors and societal constructs.

    For someone to deny the existence of the feminine and the masculine is ludicrous to me.

    Transcendent throughout the universe I find, and am not the only one, that dual forces harmonize to create a dynamic unity.

    I dunno.

    Just some rambling thoughts...
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  5. #75
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    SS, do you think the terms F/M could be exchanged for dominate/alpha and submissive/beta-at least for shorts spans of time? I could perceive the possibility of this interactive play contributing to a very dynamic relationship where roles are exchanged, especially for types where the T/F are in the middle perhaps.

    There is not one person who is masculine, but instead both parties have aspects of feminine and masculine maybe.

    Lots of good thoughts in this thread btw to all posters.

  6. #76
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    My own views are as such...

    Males have overt power women have covert power.

    He acts to impress her.

    He kills to impress her.

    He builds to impress her.

    He acquires to impress her....

    I dunno, who is dominant here?

    That which owns/acts? Or that which motivates such actions?
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  7. #77
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Before I get into trouble, I also think that there are many human actions that rest above and below our biological imperative to procreate.
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  8. #78
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Orobas, what is funny, is that both females and males each have estrogen and androgen hormones, granted, males tend to have more androgens, and females more estrogen, but still.

    That is a bio-chemical "answer" that supports the idea that within each of us lies the masculine and the feminine.

    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  9. #79
    ¡MI TORTA! Amethyst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SillySapienne View Post
    My own views are as such...

    Males have overt power women have covert power.

    He acts to impress her.

    He kills to impress her.

    He builds to impress her.

    He acquires to impress her....

    I dunno, who is dominant here?

    That which owns/acts? Or that which motivates such actions?
    The same can go for many women who go leaps and bounds for a certain someone they find special just to even notice them. It's the same in both realms of gender.

  10. #80
    Senior Member Uytuun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SillySapienne View Post
    My INTJ best friend in high school had a mystique and impenetrable distance to her, she was ethereal, wise beyond her years, and wiser than me. I embraced her, and loved her, immensely, I was her loyal dog, she my cat queen.
    I want to quote this here because SS expressed exactly what I find to be intensely feminine about my type - regardless of her position in the argument here.

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