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  1. #131
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    To profound thinkers, a slight indication is sufficient to discover great truths.
    To one who himself is royal, the emperor's clothes look magnificent.

    In any case, perennial philosophy sounds good to me.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  2. #132
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Hmm...

    Honestly, I don't know how concious people necessarily are of it...





    Oh, yeah, I mean, I don't believe that.

    I believe both men and women dip in both feminine and masculine energies.

    I just believe F men tend to dip in feminine energy more than do T men.

    (And the same goes for F females vs T females, imo.)



    Yeah, sorry, I just can't accept this as fact.

    Once again (I have a feeling this might become a saying of mine), in the parlance of Ken Wilber, this is just Green Consciousness (i.e., Post-Modernism) speaking its belief as if its truth.



    Well, honestly, this thread had been dead for some two years before it was revived a day or two ago.
    Yes, because you and Mr. Wilber are obviously epistemically privileged individuals, capable of apprehending the reality behind the illusions that us common folk cannot.

    Honestly, it's one thing to offer some insight up as one possibility among many to be critically examined or discussed (even if you believe in it 100%), but it's quite another to simply assert some shit as truth and then retreat into "well you aren't capable of deciding whether what I said is true or not because I'm special and operate on a higher plane of consciousness than you."

    That's guru shit and ought not be trusted on principle. Even if some of the insights are true (or at least valuable in some way), we need not trust the messanger or the methods used to arrive at them, nor accept whatever other propositions about the world that are attached.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  3. #133
    Member Yami's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by tawanda
    I was just curious to see if there are many female NT's out there who either find it difficult to find a relationship, keep a relationship, or just stay interested in relationships in general. Relationships are, in general, challenging, but is it more challenging for you compared to other people you're with? Do you find your friends getting into relationships a lot quicker than you, or is it easier for them, etc.?
    So, do you find it difficult to find a date or keep a relationship in your interest, why or why not?
    I'm ENTJ. And yes, I find it difficult. First off, the man has to be somehow incredible for me to like him. He has to be smart, charismatic and also he has to be good looking for me to like him.
    If I found this guy and he's into me... but he shows it too much from the beginning, well.. there's no challenge for me, and I lost interest.
    And even I like him, and he plays his cards well, and I'm into him, I could end up screwing things up for not being emotional enough. I show my affection with actions, so people have to be able to notice it, without needing me to "state" it. I need time to trust people with my feelings. But once you're in my life, you're there for good.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  4. #134
    Senior Member Pseudo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Yeah, but this can simply be attraction to the challenge.

    I met an ESTJ on a plane once, and I was very intrigued with her from the start. She was a beautiful, strong black woman. Former model.

    Ended up dating her, and, as I got to know her, I came to realize I was not attracted to her. I thought she was beautiful, but her highly rational nature did not stir up attraction in me. She lacked that feminine flair that gets a (masculine) man going.

    It was a rather important learning lesson...

    Having dated an extremely irrational ESFP for a long time, I thought I wanted a more "rational" mate.

    Then I realized I'm not exactly attracted to women for their rationality...



    What is feminine flair?

  5. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    What is feminine flair?
    Trying to express it in a drab, highly rational manner would be more-or-less antithetical to it.

    I've always felt this quote did the concept justice:

    "One must still have chaos in oneself to be able to give birth to a dancing star." - Friedrich Nietzsche

  6. #136
    Senior Member Pseudo's Avatar
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    Please attempt to be drab because defining femininity as inner chaos and a lack of rationality makes it difficult for me to understand how I can attract men and be a functional adult. And besides I hate poetry.

  7. #137
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    Sorry... can't really help you out there... it is what it is...

    The functional adult part has to do with learning to balance the masculine and the feminine, though.

  8. #138
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    I've seen it presented as such, and found it useful:

    Stage 1: too far identified with the traditional archetype (masculine-male; femine-female) of your gender.
    Stage 2: one swings to the opposite side, but goes too far, and loses many of the qualities of one's traditional gender archetype.
    Stage 3: find balance in the middle, reclaiming both one's inherent masculinity and one's inherent femininity.

  9. #139
    Senior Member Pseudo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    I've seen it presented as such, and found it useful:

    Stage 1: too far identified with the traditional archetype (masculine-male; femine-female) of your gender.
    Stage 2: one swings to the opposite side, but goes too far, and loses many of the qualities of one's traditional gender archetype.
    Stage 3: find balance in the middle, reclaiming both one's inherent masculinity and one's inherent femininity.
    Well then can you explain the archetypes? It just seems like your opinion of femininity is the old histrionic, childish damsel in distress which is tempered with the "masculine" traits of pragmatism, strength and independence.

    It seems like a lot of people reach the same "I can't describe it" conclusions in these arguments about what's feminine. I hypothesize it's because "femininity" is really just a way from some men to describe a woman whose weak/ditzy/complaint enough to make them feel like a stud.

  10. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    Well then can you explain the archetypes? It just seems like your opinion of femininity is the old histrionic, childish damsel in distress which is tempered with the "masculine" traits of pragmatism, strength and independence.

    It seems like a lot of people reach the same "I can't describe it" conclusions in these arguments about what's feminine. I hypothesize it's because "femininity" is really just a way from some men to describe a woman whose weak/ditzy/complaint enough to make them feel like a stud.
    I don't think those are the conclusions I've reached at all, actually, and the fact that you think that they are, and the pattern of your responses thus far, show me that you're trying to hyperrationalize this stuff, which is likely precisely the reason why you have a problem being feminine in the first place.

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