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  1. #91
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by You'reWrongI'mRight View Post
    It really depends.

    I'm a pretty "feminine" person looks wise( I dress VERY girly). I come off as feminine as well( the way I carry myself, speak, etc).

    I behave(express myself) and think in a very "masculine" manner, or what society relates masculinity to. I don't believe I do( by that, I mean, it's natural to me), and I don't define it as such; it seems everyone around me does though, while I believe I'm just being myself. I think it works for me, and it gets things done.

    I don't really feel like going into details because I'm quite exhausted, but I believe other NT's know what I'm talking about...


    edit: I posted in here already
    How am I supposed to read your posts when your avatars are scary!!!



    Honestly, they're particularly scary!!!!



    I'm such a pussy...
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  2. #92
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    Translation of this thread: OP doesn't like it when women are more rational (and probably more intelligent) than he is, because it makes him feel like a woman.

    /thread

  3. #93
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustHer View Post
    Translation of this thread: OP doesn't like it when women are more rational (and probably more intelligent) than he is, because it makes him feel like a woman.

    /thread


    I don't think that's the case.

    Though, I must say that being with an ITJ, versus an ITP is quite different, regarding how they accept/deal with my having y'know intelligentle sparkles in my head.

    My ITP always encouraged rational thought, he thought *people* in general were morons, and that women, in general, were more moronic than men, but overall, he was big into being rational, rational, rational!!!

    When he and I would argue, his ego would get in the way, but when he and I would just discuss things, he would be very impressed and happy with my ability to reason.

    I think Z appreciates my N-ness and my Fi-ness, whereas my ex had no respect for the latter, whenever I exhibited it, he would say I was acting irrational and being fuzzy with my "logic", blah, blah, blah.

    I have always believed in feminine and masculine ideals/constructs, and how they are manifested in human beings.

    I think Z kinda feels the same thing.

    The question I am wondering is this, is it wrong for a man to be attracted to feminine qualities, or for a woman to be attracted to masculine characteristics in their respective mates?

    See, I LOVE feminine men as friends, but me no wanna fucky fucky them, personally, just not my thing.

    Conversely, I neither like uber-masculine men either.

    Due to my level of intellect, confidence and quirkiness, I inherently need a man who is confident enough to handle me without feeling threatened.

    I dunno.

    Just some thoughts...

    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  4. #94
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Feminine men and masculine women seem kinda just unfortunate in love.

    Kinda sad when you think about it.
    Not necessarily true at all.

    Sorry, Z.

    I know SOOOOOOOOOOO many men who find intelligent, confident, assertive, hell, even aggressive women HIGHLY ATTRACTIVE.

    I have had relationships with these men, who yes, were quite feminine, and granted, I did not find them *sexually* attractive, but other than that, I found these men to be RIDICULOUSLY AWESOME.

    Intelligent to brilliant degrees, sensitive, open, receptive, and just plain ol' awesome.

    The thing is, for me, personally, I do not like being the Leader in my romantic relationships, it's just not my thing, I'm a space cadet, and it's too tiresome to always lead, and with these men, I always guided the conversations, the things we did, well, hell, I guided everything.

    But, I know my INTP best friend LOVES herself some NF men, she likes 'em nice and soft, highly creative and such.
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by SillySapienne View Post


    I don't think that's the case.
    I am talking about this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Ended up dating her, and, as I got to know her, I came to realize I was not attracted to her. I thought she was beautiful, but her highly rational nature did not stir up attraction in me.
    He is saying that he does not like his women to be rational and I am assuming that it's because rational women make him feel like a little girl.

  6. #96
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustHer View Post
    Translation of this thread: OP doesn't like it when women are more rational (and probably more intelligent) than he is, because it makes him feel like a woman.

    /thread
    Question:

    Have you ever been with a man, who was, ummm, I dunno, let's just say he was so feminine that it kinda made you feel sick?

    I, for one, cannot be with a man I do not respect on a intellectual level, and, I can't stand being with a man who is less assertive than I am.

    Just not my thing.

    He doesn't need to be aggressive per se, but please, no pussies, y'know?

    And, I am not saying that F males are pussies, I've met plenty of TPs, particularly ITPs who've been the biggest pussies ever, and that's a big turn off.

    Not trying to be mean, but that's my preference.

    Now, with that in mind, I can imagine the reverse being true.

    As in, a man being repelled by a woman who exhibits an over-abundance of stereotypically masculine traits or one who exhibits, in particular, the negative stereotypical masculine traits.

    My ESTJ sister will totally repel me sometimes, NOT BECAUSE SHE IS A WOMAN, just because she can be such an asshole.

    In general, I've *always* been attracted to androgynous or tomboyish girls as friends.

    To be frank, I can't imagine someone being attracted to my ESTJ sister, I certainly wouldn't be, but she's not a particularly healthy ESTJ, in the first place, and I dunno, she can be hilarious, in a mean way, but other than that, I don't particularly care for her that much.

    Let it be known though, that plenty of men fall HARDCORE in love with her.

    So, yep, there's certainly love out there for any/everybody.

    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  7. #97
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustHer View Post
    I am talking about this:



    He is saying that he does not like his women to be rational and I am assuming that it's because rational women make him feel like a little girl.
    lol!

    But I would say the same thing but differently, i.e. being with highly/overly emotional men does not stir up attraction in me, it's not because it makes me feel like a lil boy, it's because it makes me think they're well, insert the word you're thinking of.

    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  8. #98
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustHer View Post
    He is saying that he does not like his women to be rational and I am assuming that it's because rational women make him feel like a little girl.
    He said *highly* rational.

    That's just his preference.



    I happen to exclusively like T men in regards to romantic relationships, is this a bias, well, yeah, but I can prefer x,y,z in my mates, that's my right/choice.
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by SillySapienne View Post
    Question:

    Have you ever been with a man, who was, ummm, I dunno, let's just say he was so feminine that it kinda made you feel sick?

    I, for one, cannot be with a man I do not respect on a intellectual level, and, I can't stand being with a man who is less assertive than I am.

    Just not my thing.

    He doesn't need to be aggressive per se, but please, no pussies, y'know?
    He didnt say that he isnt attracted to butch women... or unfriendly/insensitive/uncaring ones. He said he wasn't attracted to rational women.

    I would also not be attracted to a "pussy" but that has nothing to do with whether or not the man is rational.

  10. #100
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tawanda View Post
    So, it sounds like whoever said femininity changes was wrong. This is pretty much what the general population of men sought after in a woman for centuries, someone caring, dependent more so on emotions, quiet etc.

    Plus, personality is, for the most part, genderless. We just put sticky notes of gender on them in order to make unconscious generalizations.
    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    If you believe T-type attributes to be by nature more masculine, and F-type traits to be feminine, naturally, you could extrapolate and say that T women may seem more masculine by having these qualities and living them.

    A woman can be strong and still be feminine. A woman can demonstrate intelligence and still be feminine. A woman can seem aloof and still be feminine. A woman can be assertive and ... you get the idea.
    Along the lines of the above, we need to expand our ideas of what it means to be masculine and feminine. Both are to large degree artificial constructs with strong cultural dependency and sometimes hurtful, or at least manipulative, intent. If a woman behaves "as a man", she might just be exhibiting a facet of femininity that is unfamiliar to the observer; similarly for a man behaving "as a woman". I am not asserting that there is no difference between masculine and feminine, or between men and women; simply that, MBTI statistics aside, these differences do not mirror the functional dichotomies.

    Quote Originally Posted by SillySapienne View Post
    The question I am wondering is this, is it wrong for a man to be attracted to feminine qualities, or for a woman to be attracted to masculine characteristics in their respective mates?
    Of course it is not wrong, simply a preference, like many others. As always, honesty with self and partner helps.

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