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  1. #11
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    Why would we be drawn to the same questions? Even people of the same type aren't all drawn to the same questions.
    You probably think we appear similar because you connect with us via Ne, and you perceive similar energy levels and interaction styles, or intellect perhaps. But this is a superficial assessment.
    In some areas (like relationships) INTPs more closely resemble ISTPs than any NF.
    Also, I think you guys have a habit of trying to fluff us up a bit. Kinda like putting a fluffy cover on a toilet seat lid (wth do ppl do that?). We're probably harder/colder than you like to imagine.
    you are so funny

    i don't think you guys are like nfs and i don't mean to sound like i'm fluffing you up...but there's something very genuine and pure feeling there to me that seems specific to your type....and maybe it comes from that detachment... not sure....and don't even really know how to say it.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  2. #12
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    you are so funny

    i don't think you guys are like nfs and i don't mean to sound like i'm fluffing you up...but there's something very genuine and pure feeling there to me that seems specific to your type....and maybe it comes from that detachment... not sure....and don't even really know how to say it.
    You are such an idealist!

    I think what you perceive as pure and genuine is perhaps just the absence of agenda. We shouldn't really be admired for the things we don't have.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  3. #13
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    You are such an idealist!

    I think what you perceive as pure and genuine is perhaps just the absence of agenda. We shouldn't really be admired for the things we don't have.
    right...that is such a good way to put it. i like that.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  4. #14
    Senior Member Rebe's Avatar
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    I agree with Lady X. An INTJ told me that he is completely clueless (naive) about human interaction and motivation. I think that's the same way with INTPs. I sense that you guys are, of course, hard-core thinkers but there is also this pure, genuine quality. No complicated emotional bullshit, no messed up hidden agendas, you express what you want, you expect back exactly that. Like ISTPs in relationships, but a tiny bit 'softer' vibe because of the Ne. Also the inferior Fe puts INTPs and ISTPs in danger of over-Fe over things that you can't always figure out logically, such as relationships so in those moments so in those moments, you guys are warm-er.

    I confuse male INTPs and male INFPs. Both are socially awkward, sort of abstract and spacey looking, but capable of charm. Both critical and analytical, but about different areas. Also, INFPs can appear just as cold, not all, but some. I like to think I appear cold...sometimes but my best friend thinks I am like a fluffy animal.

  5. #15
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    I don't think I'm clueless or naive about human motivation or interaction. It's a system, like any other, capable of being studied and figured out with sufficient interest. Our approach is intellectual because we don't seem to have much of a "social instinct" but that doesn't mean we can't understand it. Perhaps we even understand it better than most? Keirsey is INTP, after all. And we can make good psychologists/psychiatrists - with a focus on problem-solving, rather than nurturing. People often ask my opinion about others, because I'm pretty shrewd most of the time.
    Just because we break the rules, doesn't mean we don't understand them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  6. #16
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    I would suggest on the surface they may seem similar at first as both are reserved and quiet.

    However the biggest similarity I see has less to do with Ne and more to do with Ti/Fi.

    From what I have percieved: Ti/Fi both seem form rules sets grounded in Si. The rule sets are both very complex and detailed and can be somewhat static in nature.

    To change the ruleset with new information may be difficult for both. For the INTP, it requires data? For the INFP i think it may be much harder as the FiSi rule was formed based on observations of what is right/wrong/good/bad/painful/pleasurable growing up.

    However the Ti or Fi rules seem to function very well in their specific domains.

    It is almost like a Ti rule is a precise line and Fi is a 3D cylinder or very think fuzzy branch. Ti rules work very well on precise highly specific problems but not so well on exceptionally fuzzy people problems. Fi rules dont work well on highly precise problems but work very well on complex, confusing people problems.

    But just my perceptions, so no offense intended.

  7. #17
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    ...there's something very genuine and pure feeling there to me that seems specific to your type....and maybe it comes from that detachment... not sure....and don't even really know how to say it.
    I know what you're saying here. Many people have told me this. I think Rebe touches on it pretty well here:

    Quote Originally Posted by Rebe View Post
    I agree with Lady X. An INTJ told me that he is completely clueless (naive) about human interaction and motivation.
    For me personally (can't speak for all INTP's), this is part of it. But, it's much more of this:

    I think that's the same way with INTPs. I sense that you guys are, of course, hard-core thinkers but there is also this pure, genuine quality. No complicated emotional bullshit, no messed up hidden agendas, you express what you want, you expect back exactly that.
    Lady X mentioned that it might be the "detachment" that gives off the pure, genuine vibe. I think this is true, but indirectly. The best way I can explain it is that I'm so interested in whatever I'm analyzing or learning at a given moment (Ti), that I just don't care about all the hidden agendas, manipulation, emo games, and other side shows. I just don't have an interest in tending to those things. I know they go on, but frankly they disgust me and they're nowhere near as much fun or interesting as learning, researching, reading, analyzing, etc.

    As an example, I had an ex who would get off work and want to tell me all of the "bad things" that people said to her all day and how they have bad attitudes, and they do this wrong and that wrong, and blah, blah, blah. I understand the importance of being there for someone you care about, but if I can be honest here, I just wasn't interested. If it's that bad, get a new job so that you (and we) can be happier. Fix the problem and let's move on to happier days. I'm not going to spend my time and my energy on things that are (a) senseless = they bare no fruit, (b) there's a solution to them but you don't want to apply the solution, you'd rather just wallow in your misery and bring me down with you. I don't have time for it. I want to keep life simple, uncomplicated, and pure. That stuff clouds my vision.

    An ENFP that I knew also said that I was very genuine and didn't deal with complicated stuff. I think it was the Ti she was seeing. It's been said that Ti has a way of "trimming away all of the fat" of a given situation. We can look at a situation and immediately separate "what really matters" from "what doesn't matter at all". The stuff that doesn't matter at all - we don't want to hear about it or get caught up in it. Waste of time. We want to focus on what matters.

    I remember a first date I went on once. We were talking and it was becoming obvious that the girl had been done wrong in the past and was putting up a strong, defensive front (maybe to test me, I'm not sure). At one point, she said something like, "Men are just jerks! They're all just complete jerks!" I just remember saying something like, "If that's the label you're going to place on me, then we might as well end this date right now. There's no point going forward. But, I've heard some really good things about you and I'd like to get to know you more so I can see those things. I have some things that I'm sure you'll enjoy about me too."

    It's a way of disarming her (go ahead and put the gun down), hopefully putting her at ease (I'm genuinely interested in knowing you), but also being blunt and saying, "This is a first date. Either cut the crap and let's enjoy each other's company, or let's get the check and I'll drive you home - no hard feelings."
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

  8. #18
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post

    To change the ruleset with new information may be difficult for both. For the INTP, it requires data? For the INFP i think it may be much harder as the FiSi rule was formed based on observations of what is right/wrong/good/bad/painful/pleasurable growing up.
    You're using tertiary Te to figure out Ti and Fi. That's probably why you are so wrong.
    Ti isn't remotely interested in rules. Neither is Fi. Both are concerned with principles. The principles of systems vs personal principles.
    Rules change, principles do not.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    You're using tertiary Te to figure out Ti and Fi. That's probably why you are so wrong.
    Ti isn't remotely interested in rules. Neither is Fi. Both are concerned with principles. The principles of systems vs personal principles.
    Rules change, principles do not.
    Rules are a protection/barrier/etc of principles. They just kinda float around each other, but repel the second they touch.
    Im out, its been fun

  10. #20
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    You're using tertiary Te to figure out Ti and Fi. That's probably why you are so wrong.
    Ti isn't remotely interested in rules. Neither is Fi. Both are concerned with principles. The principles of systems vs personal principles.
    Rules change, principles do not.
    Thank you for the correction-you are quite right.

    Would personal "principles" be considered the same as personal "values"?

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