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  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    I think-granted an NeTe thought with no evidence-we may have a baby ESTJ inside of us: NeFi TeSi. I think we may use that second half of our personality to modulate our emotions and teach others about their emotions. If it is ESTJ-like, well then we are the "middle management of emo"??? Many of the negative aspects of enfp Te usage are very`similar to those of a very, very immature ESTJ, but emo tainted. "Erratic Te"...

    To Ne the analogy across to you guys...you would have a baby ISFP inside of you? NiTe.....FiSe Many INTJs seem to have an affinity for music, physical activity or dance as you age. Also, once uncovered your emotions seem extraordinarily sensitive-like a very young Fi dom perhaps??? I just dont know enough...To complete the analogy...your baby FiSe is the musician, the artist, the innocent yet sensual child of nature, so easily hurt, that hides under the strong exterior....I dunno though...
    I got me a baby ENFJ I will love it, and change it, and squeeze it, and...sorry...to much bugs bunny as a kid. I can see that baby ISFP artist in INTJs in person and know exactly what you are talking about. They have their sense of taste and what looks nice and can become stubborn in regard to what looks nice and can get hurt if someone knocks it, to the point of pulling it back and not letting it out. Underneath a TJ is purples and pinks, flowers and butterflies
    Im out, its been fun

  2. #72
    Senior Member Rebe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    I got me a baby ENFJ I will love it, and change it, and squeeze it, and...sorry...to much bugs bunny as a kid. I can see that baby ISFP artist in INTJs in person and know exactly what you are talking about. They have their sense of taste and what looks nice and can become stubborn in regard to what looks nice and can get hurt if someone knocks it, to the point of pulling it back and not letting it out. Underneath a TJ is purples and pinks, flowers and butterflies
    uh oh, now you have angered them. Watch out.

    Orobas - there's a theory about being in high stress and becoming your opposite type, so INFPs would be ESTJs, ENFPs ISTJs...

    Under extreme stress, fatigue or illness, the INFP's shadow may appear - a negative form of ESTJ. Example characteristics are:

    * being very critical and find fault with almost everything
    * doing things to excess - e.g.: eating, drinking or exercising
    * becoming bossy or domineering and ignoring others' feelings
    * being pedantic about unimportant details

    The shadow is part of the unconscious that is often visible to others, onto whom the shadow is projected. The INFP may therefore readily see these faults in others without recognising it in him/her self.
    Site.

  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebe View Post
    uh oh, now you have angered them. Watch out.

    Orobas - there's a theory about being in high stress and becoming your opposite type, so INFPs would be ESTJs, ENFPs ISTJs...

    Site.
    I have actually went down the thought process that I think Oro is thinking of. It has to do with the baby inside E/I based on the normal personalities E/I. An extroverted person is gonna be more outgoing with their inner child when stressed, hence an outgoing ISTJ which is like an ESTJ. I will be ENFJ, but in a very quiet manner being more like an INFJ when stressed because of my more introverted nature.

    We do have access to this inner child when not stressed as well, but it comes out more in a baby form instead of a stressed form. In the stressed form its got a huge armour protectant that is our dominant at full force, but when not stressed its fragile as the dominant is off elsewhere leaving it unprotected.

    I have stood in front of INTJs and ESTJs in this unprotected state. I dont think I can actually recognize ISTJs in this state for some reason. I know many ISTJs and I just cant recognize it.
    Im out, its been fun

  4. #74
    Senior Member Misty_Mountain_Rose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    Underneath a TJ is purples and pinks, flowers and butterflies


    Quote Originally Posted by Rebe View Post
    uh oh, now you have angered them. Watch out.
    Its True! Anger with tinges of nausea!

    :steam:



    Quote Originally Posted by Rebe View Post
    Do you have a quick example of his logical inconsistency? I am wondering if I do the same thing. If I do, I'd like to change that. Sometimes when people talk about principles, they believe the other argument is logically inconsistent/weak but actually, both principles are not logically sound, but they are principles. In reality, perhaps the principle may never be instilled, but it is still a strong belief. I am wondering what your side of the argument is.
    One I think about (in confusion) once in a while is a debate he and another coworker got into around Halloween. We were going to have a Halloween 'party' here at the office, and he didn't want to participate because of its symbolic worship of the devil... and I think he referred to some of it as pagaan.

    I completely understood a person not wanting to participate in a Holiday, for whatever reason, but the other person he was arguing with got him riled up where he began saying things like 'Bats are evil' and 'Tombstones are a representation of worshipping the Devil'. This is where the fun began. By the time this was fully under way, there was an audience of about 8 people listening to this debate.

    The other person (and eventually myself when I began mediating because I could see that the other person was attacking directly which was making it worse... and I really wanted to understand) proposed that nothing is evil in and of itself, it is only what we allow it to be. The INFP is a gun owner, so we asked him the question 'Is your gun evil because it can kill?' to which he answered 'No, of course not'. He couldn't differentiate between the idea that objects themselves are not inherently evil, although he admitted as much with the gun.

    The argument then switched to how everything about the holiday is about devil worship, evil and sin (INFP is a devout Christian) and should not be celebrated due to its pagaan roots.

    The other person then asked him if he celebrated Christmas, where some of the traditions also apparently has some pagaan roots. (??) Those traditions were OK.

    It was just a weird argument and nearly everything he said he would contradict himself with something else a minute later, or would get angry because we were "advocating" an evil holiday.
    Embrace the possibilities.

  5. #75
    Senior Member Rebe's Avatar
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    ^ I won't go into how I feel about religion here, haha. I don't think how he reacted is an INFP trait persay or an INFP weakness. I think in that situation, any religious type could be illogical when it comes to their beliefs.

    When I was younger, I used to get rifled up too, but now I have learned to smirk when it is not important or useful to argue a point.

    One 'argument' I had with my friends is about the idea of smacking/spanking your kids if they misbehave. I am dead-set against it; zero tolerance for any kind of physical abuse, even a light smacking on the hand. I was very emotional about it so I couldn't argue my point coherently and also, I didn't want to reveal any personal details. This doesn't happen often, for me to appear very emotional, I prefer being sarcastic, but I have perhaps two or three topics that gets me to be emotionally vulnerable-ish.

    In my opinion, the infliction of even very minor physical pain creates mistrust between the parent and child and a sense of betrayal and abuse. Because the person in authority chose to use 'physical' strength in a way that hurts a child instead of being a teacher, a nurturer and a role model. Neither of them believed in the strategy but they wanted to argue the point anyway, which made me a mad because they could see I was all emotional about it and practiced no ounce of sensitivity. I don't ask for a lot on a regular basis but since they were my close friends, I expected some sort of 'understanding' courtesy, the same that I always extend to them when they talk about sensitive topics. I don't think my argument is illogical, perhaps weak in execution.

  6. #76
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebe View Post
    uh oh, now you have angered them. Watch out.

    Orobas - there's a theory about being in high stress and becoming your opposite type, so INFPs would be ESTJs, ENFPs ISTJs...

    Site.
    Yes, that is the standard grip idea which focuses on the last function. But it doesnt fit quite right as it says I would turn into an ISTJ under stress. When you stress out enfps we extrovert Te-like an estj, not an ISTJ. We become a bit bitchy, tyrannical, and are very quick to make decisions. We are also arrogant, bossy, erratically critical, dont want to listen to others and even combative and a bit aggressive. Very immature Te dom mannerismsnot aux Te mannerisms like an ISTJ.

    It seems when you stress out INFPs, the become very rigid and prickly-like an ISTJ inspector-but an inspector of adherence to very particular Fi rules? Things become black/white wrong/right based upon the particular Fi ruleset of the INFP.

    The enfp model seems to fit pretty well but the infp model has so few data points, that it is just a guess...


    And yeah poki-I have noticed the aesthetic tendencies in the INTJ women I have known especially...and in my father in law as well oddly...

  7. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    Yes, that is the standard grip idea which focuses on the last function. But it doesnt fit quite right as it says I would turn into an ISTJ under stress. When you stress out enfps we extrovert Te-like an estj, not an ISTJ. We become a bit bitchy, tyrannical, and are very quick to make decisions. We are also arrogant, bossy, erratically critical, dont want to listen to others and even combative and a bit aggressive. Very immature Te dom mannerismsnot aux Te mannerisms like an ISTJ.

    It seems when you stress out INFPs, the become very rigid and prickly-like an ISTJ inspector-but an inspector of adherence to very particular Fi rules? Things become black/white wrong/right based upon the particular Fi ruleset of the INFP.

    The enfp model seems to fit pretty well but the infp model has so few data points, that it is just a guess...


    And yeah poki-I have noticed the aesthetic tendencies in the INTJ women I have known especially...and in my father in law as well oddly...
    *turns shoulder to give a target to hit and distract from other areas I would not like to be hit* *can see it in a way, but dont want to go down that thought right now and be able to actually agree, give examples, etc. *
    Im out, its been fun

  8. #78
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    *turns shoulder to give a target to hit and distract from other areas I would not like to be hit* *can see it in a way, but dont want to go down that thought right now and be able to actually agree, give examples, etc. *
    chicken... yeah, nobody likes to talk about our icky sides...

  9. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    chicken... yeah, nobody likes to talk about our icky sides...
    Nah, just testing the water. I dont mind my icky side, its the other sides I struggle with

    Back on topic, lol: A Question for E/INTJ - what is the attraction?
    Im out, its been fun

  10. #80
    Senior Member Rebe's Avatar
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    Yes, that is the standard grip idea which focuses on the last function. But it doesnt fit quite right as it says I would turn into an ISTJ under stress. When you stress out enfps we extrovert Te-like an estj, not an ISTJ. We become a bit bitchy, tyrannical, and are very quick to make decisions. We are also arrogant, bossy, erratically critical, dont want to listen to others and even combative and a bit aggressive. Very immature Te dom mannerismsnot aux Te mannerisms like an ISTJ.

    It seems when you stress out INFPs, the become very rigid and prickly-like an ISTJ inspector-but an inspector of adherence to very particular Fi rules? Things become black/white wrong/right based upon the particular Fi ruleset of the INFP.
    Hmm, I don't know. But what's funny is that ... I have been in stress mode for half a year now and my ISTJ friend told me that I have been becoming more and more like her, lol! We suddenly agreed on a lot of things. But I don't know about your theory...hmmm... Because if I become ISTJ when stressed, I'd have unhealthy Si traits or extreme Si traits but I was and am definitely using Te to solve my problems.

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