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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    ah, agitation-enfps can get a little, um, more angry than agitated some times.

    as for the logical fallacies-I'd have to refer to the INFPs for this particular person, but sometimes even in myself I will stumble over values-like big inlaid rules-that I cant seem to work past logically. I can ignore them, but it makes me hurt inside to do so. Most always I try and defer to logic if possible, but when the "value" arises, the end choice can totally defy logic. I understand it totally defies logic. However it is still the right answer.

    As an example see the "is it okay to be mean to others" thread in relationships. Logically it is okay, lots of people do so for very good reasons. However there is big internal stop sign inside me that says NO! I can run the stop sign and be mean, but later I will suffer internal pain as a result-and it is exceptionally hard to self forgive.
    So basically your internal pain is your Fi values. Its a part of Fi, but is not all that Fi is. Your defined values is just that a definition of your Fi values. Its not that the values arise like a stop sign, but the awareness of the value, the awareness of passing that stop sign and having that feeling value rear its head. If you were not aware then you would basically go until you "broke" a value.

    This is just how I see things.
    Im out, its been fun

  2. #52
    THIS bitch stringstheory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Misty_Mountain_Rose View Post
    Agitated is probably a better word than furious. As soon as someone tries to pick apart what he's saying he kind of dissolves into a fit of moral judgements mixed with grand ideologies that he sees as explaining the whole universe. He can't understand why anyone would think differently.
    I think this is just a human trait as opposed to a type-specific one. Consistency isn't a strong area for humans, and even your more "logical" types are no exception. my ENTJ best friend is exactly as you describe here, while i find that i'm the one who tends to be more open to dissecting the ideas we discuss.

    I do respect his passion... but I don't see how I could have something long-standing with someone who refuses to budge an inch even in the face of blatant fallacies in their argument. To me its baffling. I don't understand it other than to almost dismiss it as his identity being firmly rooted in what he believes and to question that questions everything about who he is as a person. A lot of people are not comfortable doing that... and some are seemingly completely incapable of it at all.
    People are strange.....
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  3. #53
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Are we talking about Fi, now, and how it is like living with God inside you all the damn time, even when you masturbate!!!!

    It never goes away, and sometimes I wish it would.

    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by SillySapienne View Post
    Are we talking about Fi, now, and how it is like living with God inside you all the damn time, even when you masturbate!!!!

    It never goes away, and sometimes I wish it would.

    I dont know, part of my values are dependent on the people I am with and dependent on in which ways I am with them, part of them are dependent on the things that would cause me to hurt if they did.

    You seem to have your values defined by God. Who is God to you, which values does he define, which ones do you "need" him to define? Which ones are driven by anxiety, which are by hurt, what causes the hurt.

    You really have to seperate out your values and not just know what it is that causes them, but to know why, to be able to seperate it out and assign these values where they deserve to be assigned. Like if something hurts you it means you would not wish someone else to do it to you, but another person may be fine if you do this same thing to them. Be able to seperate the internal judgement of how you would feel from how the other person feels.

    But then you have to add in the complications of though shall not kill and where this fits in to values or basically the extreme ends.

    I would be the first in line to logically argue with God and his reasoning Would be a real eye opener.

    I feel kinda stupid explaining these things to an Fi user, hopefully you got something out of it.
    Im out, its been fun

  5. #55
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SillySapienne View Post
    I get this a lot, from my INTJ, that I *actually* understand him, where most people do not.

    Granted, I don't understand all aspects of him, but I read both his implicit and explicit signals/signs well.

    What, hmmm, worries me about your above statement is this part, "the main thing that the INTJ sees in the ENFP is a complete acceptance of the INTJ as is."

    That's all?

    Acceptance?

    No mutual exploration?

    No mutually found depths of life, and meaning?

    Yep. We INTJs are shallow SOBs. No exploration.

    SillySapienne wants more from her mate than her mate exclusively wanting her understanding and acceptance.

    I give that shit out like candy, granted, INTJs are a bit more complex than your average Joe, but still, that's all you want from us?!!?



    Really???!!?
    Well, yeah, because we're shallow like that. No depth at all.

    And, once again, this might be due to my enneagram, but I feel misunderstood and freakish all the damn time.

    Yes, I have the ability and facility to connect with many life forms, and the universe itself, but still, on a human, existential level, I feel quite unique to a negative, lonely extent.

    I was not built like other girls, my desires are vast, varied, and deep.

    And, I think what makes me fall in love with people is their ability to "get it", in general, and more specifically, their ability, which is rare, to get me. :blushing:
    And not only are we INTJs shallow, we don't do sarcasm at all.

    Nope, not a sarcastic bone in my body.

    All serious. All the time.

    Especially around ENFPs.

  6. #56
    THIS bitch stringstheory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    Yep. We INTJs are shallow SOBs. No exploration.


    Well, yeah, because we're shallow like that. No depth at all.

    And not only are we INTJs shallow, we don't do sarcasm at all.

    Nope, not a sarcastic bone in my body.

    All serious. All the time.

    Especially around ENFPs.
    You are too cute
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  7. #57
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stringstheory View Post
    You are too cute
    You forgot utterly, totally, completely amazingly adorable. Along with amazingly clever and cute! Meow!

  8. #58
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Ohhh Uumlau...you're in for a very very goeeyy ride

    Edit: to save this poor INTJ the trouble of having to explain this to every NFP on the forum, I wanted to let you guys know me and Uumlau have had this convo already on our walls

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...u2=5494&page=5

    (start from the third post)
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  9. #59
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Is there an uumlau love train that I was unaware of goin' on up in here!!?

    uumlau = awesomeness

    infinite
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  10. #60
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Choo-chooooooooooo!

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