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  1. #31
    Senior Membrane spirilis's Avatar
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    I think in an unhealthy state of mind, especially one devoid of external stimulus (ie extreme-introvert mode), an INTP at least can become extremely narcissistic, mainly because he spends his day analyzing stuff that only involves him, so his present mindset is skewed by a surplus of information that only pertains to him. It is extremely important for an INTP to expose themselves to other people and social situations in general so that they may prevent themself from becoming jaded by it.

    Not really sure how ENTP's relate to that though.

  2. #32
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    "Do you ever get bored with them? My friend made a good point when he said once you have analyzed someone enough, there isn't much new to be offered there. I think he is also an INTP and would rather talk to strangers for the sake of fresh perspective then people he already knows. I can't help but agree. What do you think?"
    Some immature TNPs might be difficult to get along with. I've seen ENTP wander on to something new without realizing he left problems in his wake... but most of the time once the tertiary Fe comes things work out okay. INTP stuck at the initial stages of Ne can do the same thing... It takes time for them to learn to move on.


    "INTP and ENTP are my least favorite types -- I don't even like to be in the same room with these people. They seem to enjoy constant conflict. I've had several as close friends for a time, but when my intellectual appeal wore off they got nasty. From my experience, they are amoral, sadistic, colorless in personality with no concept of empathy. They seem like poorly designed simulacra of a human, inverted into constant self-worship. Their single-minded goal of 'appearing right' seems impossibly empty to me, not to mention dull and draining."
    *nods to FineLine's comment about INFPs use of hyperbole* ENTP's desire for intellectual debates can at times get out of hand. Although I myself generally like this attribute up to a point.

  3. #33
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    I have never perceived my husband to be the way NTPs are described in the original post. Maybe it's because he's religious. Maybe it's because he likes me. Maybe it's because he had a somewhat traumatic childhood and he craves peace. I don't know.

    We met when he was twenty and he has always been sweet to me. It's rare that he really hurts my feelings and that's pretty amazing because they are easily hurt. When we were younger and I hadn't calibrated for his temperament as well as I have now, I would sometimes feel neglected and/or ignored, but I haven't felt that way for years.

    His emotions and the way be expresses them may not be conventional and he doesn't suffer fools gladly, but he does not mistreat people or speak rudely to them. His religious beliefs are that he is to live in intelligent consideration of his wife and he is diligent about doing so. I respect him more than anyone else I've ever known. He is kind and funny and true and no woman was better loved than me.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  4. #34
    Senior Member htb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    We met when he was twenty and he has always been sweet to me. It's rare that he really hurts my feelings and that's pretty amazing because they are easily hurt.
    No confirmed INTP that I have met in person has much, if any, capacity for aggression; nor a desire to hurt or lie. Untruths seem to come from self-deception: as if in the INTP's mental header, a variable has been switched by wishful thinking, resulting in bad data thereafter.

  5. #35
    Senior Member autumn's Avatar
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    The first thing that comes to mind is that there is a HUGE DIFFERENCE between a healthy, balanced, mature example of any type and an example of the same type that...has an exceptionally large amount of improvement to make.

    Now, different types may be tend to manifest immaturity in certain characteristic ways, but there are also character and virtue deficiencies that really have little to do with MBTI type. It's pretty unfair to assume all people of a certain type are automatically equipped with a certain set of vices based on one or two experiences with people who may have had other difficulties. It can be difficult not to do this when the type you have clashed with is already a type that has preferences very different from your own, or even when their preferences differ only slightly (leading people to focus perhaps more intently than they should on those differences).

    I do think it's very important not to attribute things to MBTI type that actually have nothing to do with MBTI type, and important not to attribute the unequivocally negative (that is, not just "different from my own") characteristics of an immature person of a certain type to that type intrinsically.

    For what it's worth, I am an NF and have mentioned before how much I love NTPs, particularly the one I am married to and another of my very closest friends .

    autumn

  6. #36
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirilis View Post
    I think in an unhealthy state of mind, especially one devoid of external stimulus (ie extreme-introvert mode), an INTP at least can become extremely narcissistic, mainly because he spends his day analyzing stuff that only involves him, so his present mindset is skewed by a surplus of information that only pertains to him. It is extremely important for an INTP to expose themselves to other people and social situations in general so that they may prevent themself from becoming jaded by it.

    Not really sure how ENTP's relate to that though.
    Introverted Judgment without a strong sense of higher/inner purpose will become radically egocentric.

    INTPs are less likely to succumb to this than ENTPs because they tend to have more faculties to work with in order to achieve this goal of introverted judgment.

    The problem for ENTPs is that their Introverted Judgment will fall slave to their Extroverted Perception. They will then manipulate their external environment just to pick the berries.

    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    Some immature TNPs might be difficult to get along with. I've seen ENTP wander on to something new without realizing he left problems in his wake... but most of the time once the tertiary Fe comes things work out okay. INTP stuck at the initial stages of Ne can do the same thing... It takes time for them to learn to move on..
    I'd say INTPs have less of this problem because of their dominant Judging function. They are more stable. Their problem isnt moving on too fast, but simply not being well-informed of interpersonal issues to resolve.





    Quote Originally Posted by htb View Post
    No confirmed INTP that I have met in person has much, if any, capacity for aggression; nor a desire to hurt or lie. Untruths seem to come from self-deception: as if in the INTP's mental header, a variable has been switched by wishful thinking, resulting in bad data thereafter.
    No, INTPs are not big on wishful thinking..as they are as T as it gets..Holding erroneous beliefs you've depicted here is a result of not properly collecting information due to bad perception...(When Ti eclipses Ne)

    The analysis is almost always impeccable, yet in such situations their solutions will not be relevant to the external situation.

    This isnt self-deception but simply unawareness of the external situation.

    I am thinking the INTP may appear disingenuine delivering inaccurate information about the external situation (flawed Ne), and about their Feelings(lack of Fe). To many other types lacking awareness of the two is difficult to conceive, and for this reason they mistakenly end up believing that the INTP attempted to delude them.

    Quote Originally Posted by htb View Post
    No confirmed INTP that I have met in person has much, if any, capacity for aggression; nor a desire to hurt or lie.
    Dominant Introverted Judgment, if properly developed should give the individual very strong-principles--especially if coupled with the tough-minded attitude of a dominant Thinking faculty.

    However, INTPs who have not found higher/inner purpose will likely incur self-apotheosis.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  7. #37
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    The problem of the OP outlines Introverted Judgment gone corrupt in combination with the NTP opportunistic mindset.

    This is where they stop taking their principles seriously and turn their self-apotheosis outwards.

    Can very much happen to NFPs, though would manifest itself in a very different light.

    In short this is a problem of corrupt introverted judment.

    Its more common among EPs than IPs because a secondary faculty is more likely to malfunction than the primary.

    The problem of corrupt Introverted Judgment is most clearly outlined in EJ and IJ types, however since Introverted Judgment plays a small role in their psyche, the corruption, however distinct tends to entail few significant consequences.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  8. #38
    Senior Member Priam's Avatar
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    OK, so this is my first real post on the boards, so be as gentle as NTs can be. I have been typed out as an INTP, so I just wanted to toss out my own personal experience: I think most everybody is right. Like another person said earlier, one of the traits NPs tend to carry is the ability to balance a paradoxical position in their head without, y'know, EXPLODING. I can simultaneously feel like:

    -A natural aristocrat. I get the sensation, sometimes warranted, of being a cut above everyone in the room intellectually and spiritually.

    - A deeply flawed being. I can see quite clearly the darkside and downside of my character, the places where I am NOT as competent or strong as others; indeed, I often remind myself that, as great as I may be, someone out there is better in some way.

    - An iceberg. Is there a chill in here? Oh wait, it's just me.

    - A roiling sea of emotion. Again, the introspective analysis comes in and I realize that I'm no more immune to passionate feelings that anyone else. No one is ever a special case.

    - A cynic. Snark? Snark? We're all stocked up here! People are people, both good and bad, so Utopia is a pointless endeavour.

    - An idealist. Yet, somehow, perfection isn't the point. Humanity has been growing into itself over thousands of years, and there's reason to hope that we'll continue to do so.

    - A misanthrope. Everybody always wants to drive into my personal space and park there for hours! Go. The. H***. Away!

    - A people person. The human animal is the single most complex, fascinating creature on this planet, and I can't get enough of learning more about them! How can I not love a mystery that consistently, and often consciously, reinvents itself each day? And sometimes they want me to help!

    I'm sure there are a lot more contradictions, but I do feel like I could fall in every category mentioned depending on the day I've been having. Pretty much like everyone else, I suppose.

  9. #39
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Priam View Post
    OK, so this is my first real post on the boards, so be as gentle as NTs can be. I have been typed out as an INTP, so I just wanted to toss out my own personal experience: I think most everybody is right. Like another person said earlier, one of the traits NPs tend to carry is the ability to balance a paradoxical position in their head without, y'know, EXPLODING. I can simultaneously feel like:

    -A natural aristocrat. I get the sensation, sometimes warranted, of being a cut above everyone in the room intellectually and spiritually.

    - A deeply flawed being. I can see quite clearly the darkside and downside of my character, the places where I am NOT as competent or strong as others; indeed, I often remind myself that, as great as I may be, someone out there is better in some way.

    - An iceberg. Is there a chill in here? Oh wait, it's just me.

    - A roiling sea of emotion. Again, the introspective analysis comes in and I realize that I'm no more immune to passionate feelings that anyone else. No one is ever a special case.

    - A cynic. Snark? Snark? We're all stocked up here! People are people, both good and bad, so Utopia is a pointless endeavour.

    - An idealist. Yet, somehow, perfection isn't the point. Humanity has been growing into itself over thousands of years, and there's reason to hope that we'll continue to do so.

    - A misanthrope. Everybody always wants to drive into my personal space and park there for hours! Go. The. H***. Away!

    - A people person. The human animal is the single most complex, fascinating creature on this planet, and I can't get enough of learning more about them! How can I not love a mystery that consistently, and often consciously, reinvents itself each day? And sometimes they want me to help!

    I'm sure there are a lot more contradictions, but I do feel like I could fall in every category mentioned depending on the day I've been having. Pretty much like everyone else, I suppose.
    I think everyone goes through that, but NP's probably tend to make it more obvious because they aren't trying to maintain an outer consistency in their behavior as their minds "change face." I just try to seem the same way (passive/withdrawn, formal but amiable) regardless of how I feel, so that I don't seem inconsistent.

  10. #40
    Senior Member Priam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    I think everyone goes through that, but NP's probably tend to make it more obvious because they aren't trying to maintain an outer consistency in their behavior as their minds "change face." I just try to seem the same way (passive/withdrawn, formal but amiable) regardless of how I feel, so that I don't seem inconsistent.
    Oh absolutely. Humanity can often be, in itself, all about contradiction and the way we balance ourselves around it. I think all that changes is where the conflict rests and how we manifest internally/externally. For me it tends to manifest externally as being an absolutely pitch perfect, passionate devil's advocate for myself and others. If I can slice things thinly enough, I can (for a time) argue about most anything from a place of belief... and I certainly will. Drives people nuts

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