[Ti] Ti constructs

[TiNe_2_IP]

.... it's like I've already run a simulation in my head for the current situation - before I ever got in the situation. So now that I'm in the situation, I have a good idea what to expect and what is coming my way - the good, the bad, and the ugly. And when things pop up, I already know how to deal with it.

I do this all the time. I tend to run through scenarios while I am having a shower - which is not a good thing in southern Australia with water restrictions, in fact I call the shower cubicle my think tank.
When you find yourself in the 'real' situation you recognize it right away and most of the time it plays out just like you anticipated it would. I go so far as to have conversations with people before I have the conversations. I used to do this out loud when I was a kid, still do sometimes.
My Mum would yell out 'Who are you talking to in there?'
'Ah, no-one'
This helps me feel more prepared for a situation but it has a downside in that I have probably already made a judgement about it as well.

 

[InsatiableCuriosity]

I need more time to process this thread and respond so I am just going to send this as a placeholder so I don't lose it on the list.

So much I identify with - I see maps of action and consequence in my mind's eye - but it will take me more hours than I have now to construct a response. It is after 10pm and I have a class to teach at 8am so I am being lazy for now and leaving the process until tomorrow.

 

[INTPness]

I do this all the time. I tend to run through scenarios while I am having a shower - which is not a good thing in southern Australia with water restrictions, in fact I call the shower cubicle my think tank.
When you find yourself in the 'real' situation you recognize it right away and most of the time it plays out just like you anticipated it would. I go so far as to have conversations with people before I have the conversations. I used to do this out loud when I was a kid, still do sometimes.
My Mum would yell out 'Who are you talking to in there?'
'Ah, no-one'
This helps me feel more prepared for a situation but it has a downside in that I have probably already made a judgement about it as well.

Ha ha. Yeah, I've had conversations before they happen as well. Ne allows me to anticipate every possible response the other person might have. I actually kind of forced myself to stop doing this at one time because I thought it was "unhealthy" or neurotic. I thought, "surely other people don't do this. I'm going to stop." But, eh, I do it less now, but I guess it's a part of my functioning process. I don't think it's unhealthy now, but I do think it's bad if we let it take precedence over "the actual conversation". The actual conversation is what counts and we should allow for some "unpredictability" in that conversation (not having planned for it already in advance). But, I do think it's valuable in the sense that we can have a "gameplan" of how to react to whatever comes up because we've already seen it play out in our imagination.

 

[sculpting]

Erughhh I always struggle with this, I really think that what everyone is describing is how I think (whenever I'm not relying on my Fi...), but then again, I still don't think I fully grasp the difference between Ti and Te.

It seems like how you broke it down seemed very organized and like If->then statements, isn't that how Te would work too? Organized Step-by-step?

How you explained it seemed like an outline one would use to write a paper, which is how I think. Main point, and then blah blah blah to support.

I always thought Ti was jumbled and not so linear looking?

I think Ti may actually be far more linear than Te-at least the enfp version of Te. Ti demands linkages???? If the linkages are not present, the Ti user cannot move forward????? Although INTPness did say that Ne often fills in those gaps making it much more flexible that Ti in isolation????? (Please clarify if I totally messed this up INTPness....I can only describe externally..)

Te in enfps can skip steps-it cares about the result and finding a solution. The quickest most efficient solution that resolves the issue so we can stop "thinking" as that requires a lot of energy. Typically the most effective thinking is done in pursuit of something we have a strong emotive tie to. For me that is customer satisfaction. At other times it has been an emotional tie to intellectual inquisitiveness. Te feels...assertive, a bit demanding, pointed, blunt, even caustic, challenging.

Te users "speak out" their thinking - clearly - to the outside world. They think through things while they are conversating. Talking it out, explaining, directing, organizing, etc is how they "think through things". ... When he's alone, he's unable to use Te the way it's meant to be used - in an extroverted way, with a focus on the outer world. It's strange for me to watch actually. It's almost like the one time in life where he starts to almost look helpless or lost.

Te users can do it instantaneously. Ask them a question and you get an answer. ... Right now.

This sounds like a Te dom. It is also how a Tert Te user looks. Not an Aux Te user though.

ENFPs who are using tert Te are very verbal, we have to externalize the idea and seek feedback-we dont have tight Ti connections to use for confirmation. We rely on a weak Si database to back up our factual ideas gathered using Ne connections. Like an estj, we may seem resistant to new info at first. Te wants to resolve the issue NOW, not consider more data.

NeFi TeSi. We have a baby ESTJ living in our heads. (I used to think I had an evil dark side that was cruel and would destroy other people...nope, just a baby ESTJ)

 

[INTPness]

I think Ti may actually be far more linear than Te-at least the enfp version of Te. Ti demands linkages???? If the linkages are not present, the Ti user cannot move forward????? Although INTPness did say that Ne often fills in those gaps making it much more flexible that Ti in isolation????? (Please clarify if I totally messed this up INTPness....I can only describe externally..)

Yeah, I think there's truth in this. I think Ti does demand linkages. If I can't figure out Step 1, then I have no business working on Step 2. A good example of this is when I was in college and I would be given a really big assignment: i.e., research a topic thoroughly, learn everything you can about it (the professor would even say, "this is the whole point - to learn about the topic. The point is not to just manufacture a final paper, the point is to research and learn). Well, I would procrastinate for weeks and then I would finally find myself on the evening before the 12 page paper was due (spoken like a true INTP ). Needless to say, I no longer had time to really learn the subject. I just had to do some quick research, take some main ideas and try to piece together 12 pages to show that I could speak intelligently on the topic. I'd get a B+ or maybe even an A and move on to the next assignment, but Ti knows that a link was skipped in the process. Ti knows that a shortcut was taken and so, even though I got a good grade, it didn't feel authentic.

I'm guessing that Te would probably be more focused on just writing the paper. The focus would be on completion. While Ti would think:

Step 1: Go to library and check out 4 or 5 books on the subject.
Step 2: Spend the next week dabbling in the books and learning the subject.
Step 3: Go online and get more information to fill in gaps and to answer more questions I may have.
Step 4: Brainstorm and develop an outline for the paper.
Step 5: Write a rough draft.
Step 6: Wait a couple days to allow my mind to be clear.
Step 7: Go back and re-read the paper with a clear mind, making changes where necessary.
Step 8: Re-read paper one more time and make sure spelling and grammar are absolutely perfect (don't want to get a lower grade for overlooking something so silly)
Step 9: Turn in paper.

When I would get a large assignment, I would write out something like that. Each one logically leads to the next step in the sequence. The more I procrastinated, the more shortcuts I would have to take, and the more quality I knew I was sacrificing. I could still turn in a decent paper, but I knew that I hadn't done my best - because I had short-circuited Ti's original plan.

So, I can skip linkages when I absolutely need to, but I'm not comfortable doing it. It feels like something is missing.

And Ne comes in handy because it can come up with creative ways to "fudge" it. Come up with something where there is nothing and make it sound believable and intelligent.

 

[BlueGray]

I actually don't think through things in such steps.

 

[sculpting]

I'm guessing that Te would probably be more focused on just writing the paper. The focus would be on completion. While Ti would think:

Step 1: Go to library and check out 4 or 5 books on the subject.
Step 2: Spend the next week dabbling in the books and learning the subject.
Step 3: Go online and get more information to fill in gaps and to answer more questions I may have.
Step 4: Brainstorm and develop an outline for the paper.
Step 5: Write a rough draft.
Step 6: Wait a couple days to allow my mind to be clear.
Step 7: Go back and re-read the paper with a clear mind, making changes where necessary.
Step 8: Re-read paper one more time and make sure spelling and grammar are absolutely perfect (don't want to get a lower grade for overlooking something so silly)
Step 9: Turn in paper.

And Ne comes in handy because it can come up with creative ways to "fudge" it. Come up with something where there is nothing and make it sound believable and intelligent.

+1 for the Ne fudge factor. 80% is pretty close to correct, when you have procrastinated...

I would ask say the "steps" are Te-like in nature. Not that you are using Te-but that Ti saw a good idea and borrowed it and now you use it.

Where I see the Ti is in the "particularness" of each task. Sort of like how Ni dives, deeper and deeper into a particular vision to let the gaps be filled in-Ti kinds of digs deeper and deeper into this particular task. First you learn, then write, then rewrite, the check, then clarify, then check again-at each layer the precision is enhanced.

It almost "feels" like as you do this each time, you are starting with a nebulous Ti construct, and taking in a step wise fashion deeper (?). With each step deeper the construct becomes more crystalline and perfect. But it takes rounds of fine tuning to get there.

Perhaps in your mind, you have a Ti construct of the task at hand, and via reflection based upon the concrete work in front of you, you keep modifying until the concrete work and the Ti mental construct are the same??? Or perhaps they are both simultaneously crystallizing to reach equivalence?

I dunnoooo!

 

[Nonsensical]

You have Pness in your name, INTPness. Literally "PENIS"

yall can call me Cpt. Obvious but I think it is funny

 

[INTPness]

+1 for the Ne fudge factor. 80% is pretty close to correct, when you have procrastinated...

I would ask say the "steps" are Te-like in nature. Not that you are using Te-but that Ti saw a good idea and borrowed it and now you use it.

Where I see the Ti is in the "particularness" of each task. Sort of like how Ni dives, deeper and deeper into a particular vision to let the gaps be filled in-Ti kinds of digs deeper and deeper into this particular task. First you learn, then write, then rewrite, the check, then clarify, then check again-at each layer the precision is enhanced.

It almost "feels" like as you do this each time, you are starting with a nebulous Ti construct, and taking in a step wise fashion deeper (?). With each step deeper the construct becomes more crystalline and perfect. But it takes rounds of fine tuning to get there.

Perhaps in your mind, you have a Ti construct of the task at hand, and via reflection based upon the concrete work in front of you, you keep modifying until the concrete work and the Ti mental construct are the same??? Or perhaps they are both simultaneously crystallizing to reach equivalence?

I dunnoooo!

Yeah, sometimes the construct needs to be modified. But, the powerful thing with Ti (and I think other Ti users can probably relate) is that I know that if I lay everything out in logical steps and actually follow it with precision (allowing for some modifications as I learn new things along the way), that the finished product will be VERY GOOD. Close to perfection. Because I haven't missed any steps. Every single base was covered and it was covered in its proper order and with precision. I think Ti users know that if they follow a logical pattern and aren't lazy in following the pattern, these are the times in life when they've gotten very good results.

 

[INTPness]

You have Pness in your name, INTPness. Literally "PENIS"

yall can call me Cpt. Obvious but I think it is funny

LOL. Good catch. I didn't think anyone would ever notice that. Seriously though, when I chose that name I wasn't even thinking of the words "peanut brittle". Nor was I thinking of the word "penis". I was going more for "the essence of an INTP". A few weeks after I signed up, I looked at the name and went

Yet another sensotard moment.

 

[Poki]

Come on, visa! Give us one of your Ti constructs. I know you're into music. Maybe you've thought a lot about, and have a construct for, what "the ideal band" would be. Maybe it includes a couple electric guitars, a flute player, and 3 girls dancing on stage with pom poms. Put it out there! Even if it's a relatively lame topic. It doesn't have to be rocket science - nobody would want to read that anyways.

Ti constructs are different in ISTP then they are in INTPs. TI constructs in ISTPs dont contain the detail of a couple electric guitars, a flute player, etc. Our constructs are very vague. as it builds Ni, not Si. It doesnt build concrete things, it builds concepts and Ni and we manage our way through the world with these constructs or concepts. Things like personality type is one of my constructs and how to get along best with each person.

 

[sculpting]

LOL. Good catch. I didn't think anyone would ever notice that. Seriously though, when I chose that name I wasn't even thinking of the words "peanut brittle". Nor was I thinking of the word "penis". I was going more for "the essence of an INTP". A few weeks after I signed up, I looked at the name and went

Yet another sensotard moment.

LOL, I thought you had planned it to be funny this whole time... It always makes me giggle just a bit. Gotta love Ne.

Ti constructs are different in ISTP then they are in INTPs. TI constructs in ISTPs dont contain the detail of a couple electric guitars, a flute player, etc. Our constructs are very vague. as it builds Ni, not Si. It doesnt build concrete things, it builds concepts and Ni and we manage our way through the world with these constructs or concepts. Things like personality type is one of my constructs and how to get along best with each person.

Poki!
this is fascinating.... It would almost seem that TiNi would be exceptionally powerful computationally...This is a weird quetion but what happens if you stop looking outward with Se and only look inward with TiNi? Is that even possible? I dunno....

 

[Poki]

Poki!
this is fascinating.... It would almost seem that TiNi would be exceptionally powerful computationally...This is a weird quetion but what happens if you stop looking outward with Se and only look inward with TiNi? Is that even possible? I dunno....

From the best I can tell. Everything has to start with something I take in through Se, but basically I run through the same thing over and over and over and over, thinking the same thoughts while the ideas from each one builds on each other and pull in other things that relate to whats been built in some form or fashion and it all just builds on that thought.

 

[Valuable_Money]

Dorothy - SJ(she wants to go home and return to the stability of her normal life)
Scarecrow - NT(He wants a brain to become more efficient at his job)
TinMan - NF(he wants a heart to better relate emotionally to those around him)
Lion - SP(He wants courage to better be able to interact with his physical environment)

Your Mind Status:

[X]blown
[ ]not blown

 

[INTPness]

Dorothy - SJ(she wants to go home and return to the stability of her normal life)
Scarecrow - NT(He wants a brain to become more efficient at his job)
TinMan - NF(he wants a heart to better relate emotionally to those around him)
Lion - SP(He wants courage to better be able to interact with his physical environment)

Your Mind Status:

[X]blown
[ ]not blown

Scarecrow - since he's brainless, he's definitely NOT an NT. He is some other type who wants what NT's have and what his type lacks.

Tin Man - If he's heartless, then he can't be NF. He's probably NT and wants desperately to have some compassion.

Lion - he's timid and lacks courage, so he's not SP.

You had it backwards. They all want the very thing that their personalities lack, so that they will be more well-rounded. If I wanted better social skills, that would make me an INTP, not an ESTJ.

Your mind status:

[ ] the same as before you read this post
[x] something similar to inhaling a can of wood polish

 

[Orangey]

Scarecrow - since he's brainless, he's definitely NOT an NT. He is some other type who wants what NT's have and what his type lacks.

Tin Man - If he's heartless, then he can't be NF. He's probably NT and wants desperately to have some compassion.

Lion - he's timid and lacks courage, so he's not SP.

You had it backwards. They all want the very thing that their personalities lack, so that they will be more well-rounded. If I wanted better social skills, that would make me an INTP, not an ESTJ.

Your mind status:

[ ] the same as before you read this post
[x] something similar to inhaling a can of wood polish

Yeah, but didn't they find out at the end that they each already had what they had sought all along?

 

[INTPness]

Yeah, but didn't they find out at the end that they each already had what they had sought all along?

Mind status?

 

[Orangey]

Mind status?

[x] Something similar to inhaling a can of wood polish.

 

[INTPness]

[x] Something similar to inhaling a can of wood polish.

LOL. Seriously though, I don't remember the ending. It's been so many years since I watched that movie. I think I was just a kid.

I guess if they already had those things, I'd still hold on to my argument. I mean, if you could go see a wizard and ask for anything, would you ask him for more of what you're already good at (like an NT asking for a brain or an NF asking for a heart)? Or would the NT be the one asking for a heart (the area that he's NOT so good at)?

I feel like my mind is my best attribute, so I would want something that I know I'm lacking.

 

[Orangey]

LOL. Seriously though, I don't remember the ending. It's been so many years since I watched that movie. I think I was just a kid.

I guess if they already had those things, I'd still hold on to my argument. I mean, if you could go see a wizard and ask for anything, would you ask him for more of what you're already good at (like an NT asking for a brain or an NF asking for a heart)? Or would the NT be the one asking for a heart (the area that he's NOT so good at)?

I feel like my mind is my best attribute, so I would want something that I know I'm lacking.

Well, I'm thinking of it like a video game. Once you choose your character's primary skill sets (usually by virtue of selecting a certain class or race), you want to keep adding points to that set. You don't want to add points willy nilly to other areas in which your character is not specializing, and at which your character will probably never be the best.