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Thread: Ti constructs

  1. #11
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecttcelfeR View Post
    I'm a huge fan of running scenarios in my mind before actually excuting them for that very reason. I need to have at least an idea of what can happen before it does so I alter some variables here and there and run through logical ways conversations could play out because of decisions I make. Though I always take into account that 20% that I don't know which keeps me on my toes. I'm glad you described your thinking process as such. I can use it now in explaining my own.
    Oh yeah, I'm glad you brought that up. The 20% "unknown" is something I'm always "aware of". I'm aware of the holes in my theory/construct and I'm aware of "what I haven't yet taken into account" or don't have enough information on. And when those things come up, I'm not surprised. I might be a little less sure of how to proceed, but I knew it was a possibility and I'm quite capable of winging it.

    Being NP's, we're pretty good at responding "as things happen" anyways, so it's OK if things don't go EXACTLY according to plan. Most of my constructs cover the basics of "what will probably happen."

    It's like drawing a big circle and then saying, "I know the dart is going to land SOMEWHERE within this cirlce". Rarely does it land outside of the circle and, when it does, that's OK too because we'll just adjust and respond accordingly - and then go back and tweak the construct as needed.

    There are those rare times where the dart lands WAY out of the circle though and I'm kind of "stumped". We're good at handling curve balls, but sometimes the pitcher will surprise you and throw right at your head.
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

  2. #12
    ReflecTcelfeR
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    Also, without the 20% of not knowing what's going to happen our constructs wouldn't change much, at least through experiences, so I usually gladly welcome not knowing so I can learn what I need to know from it.

  3. #13
    Senior Member 2XtremeENFP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    Do tell! If Justin can bring sexy back, we can bring Ti back.
    Erughhh I always struggle with this, I really think that what everyone is describing is how I think (whenever I'm not relying on my Fi...), but then again, I still don't think I fully grasp the difference between Ti and Te.

    It seems like how you broke it down seemed very organized and like If->then statements, isn't that how Te would work too? Organized Step-by-step?

    How you explained it seemed like an outline one would use to write a paper, which is how I think. Main point, and then blah blah blah to support.

    I always thought Ti was jumbled and not so linear looking?

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2XtremeENFP View Post
    Erughhh I always struggle with this, I really think that what everyone is describing is how I think (whenever I'm not relying on my Fi...), but then again, I still don't think I fully grasp the difference between Ti and Te.

    It seems like how you broke it down seemed very organized and like If->then statements, isn't that how Te would work too? Organized Step-by-step?

    How you explained it seemed like an outline one would use to write a paper, which is how I think. Main point, and then blah blah blah to support.

    I always thought Ti was jumbled and not so linear looking?
    Te users "speak out" their thinking - clearly - to the outside world. They think through things while they are conversating. Talking it out, explaining, directing, organizing, etc is how they "think through things". I know some ESTJ's that are capable of thinking on their own, but they aren't nearly as effective alone as when they are around others - and they don't seem to like it much. They want to be directing and talking things out with someone. I even know one that gets really stir crazy if he's alone for a few hours. It's because he has nobody to bounce his ideas and strategies off of. When he's alone, he's unable to use Te the way it's meant to be used - in an extroverted way, with a focus on the outer world. It's strange for me to watch actually. It's almost like the one time in life where he starts to almost look helpless or lost.

    Ti is all of this that we're discussing, but it's mostly directed internally. It helps/aids with outside things, but the thinking itself is most effective when it's done privately and without a lot of distractions. Ever noticed that sometimes when you ask an INTP about something you sometimes get a response that makes you go, "Uhhh, what did he just say?" That happens when we feel rushed - it takes us time and a lot of thought to "translate" what we see so clearly in our minds into actual words that reflect those thoughts to other people.

    Te users can do it instantaneously. Ask them a question and you get an answer. Right now. Ask a Ti user a question that is somewhat complex (not just a 'yes/no' question like, 'did you eat lunch yet'?) and if we feel rushed or if the dialogue is moving quickly then you will probably get a "half-baked" answer that doesn't truly reflect our internal thoughts/constructs. But, sit down with us and show real interest or actually ask our advice and you will get an answer that reflects our thoughts much more accurately. Even then, it may be hard for us.

    The absolute best way that you can get our thoughts is to say, "Hey, think about this tonight when you go home and get back to me tomorrow. I need some good input and I'd like your thoughts." Or, "give this some thought and if you think you can find a solution, shoot me an e-mail explaining what you think is the best approach." Then, we can sit privately and think clearly.

    When I'm by myself, my thought process is like a mighty, free-flowing river. When I'm dialoguing with someone who I don't know well or if the dialogue is rapid, my thought process is more like a lawn sprinkler. You're going to get some glimpses of what I'm thinking, but it tends to be very "choppy" and Ne makes it even more scattered. That's one of the reasons that lots of interaction can wear us out. It requires a lot of energy to "think about what's in our head, then think about if it would be wise to say that to the person we are currently talking to, then make adjustments if we think it needs changes, then try to say it (all the while fighting off Ne's desire to start talking about something else).
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

  5. #15
    Junior Member missfixit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    I was thinking more about your first post and, yeah, I definitely do that a lot. I make lists of the logical order I need to follow in order to get something accomplished. I do it so that I can see the logical sequence that I need to follow and I can also think about steps I might be missing. So I think what you posted is definitely a Ti thing - mapping things out in logical order.

    To answer your questions, I think "N" is future oriented while "S" is mostly "here and now", as you mentioned is the case with you. My Ti is probably a lot like the ISTP Ti, except for Ne makes me want to "peek into the future" as much as possible and think about how I can be prepared as much as possible for what is coming tomorrow or in 10 years.

    What's interesting is that I have a good ISTP friend and he and I have NEVER talked about this kind of stuff. We don't "show" our Ti to each other, nor do we talk about it. Since it's an introverted function, it mostly goes unnoticed. So, it was interesting to hear that you kind of think in a similar way. I usually just see the Se of ISTP's and they usually just see my Ne. We don't really ask questions about what's going on in our heads.
    I've been thinking some more since my last post here too (hahaha)...

    I spend such in incredible amount of time in my own head, lost to the world, that I thought I might be INTP. But I think I'm too much of a hands-on Se person, and I'm just not interested in possibilities as much as what is...I'm definitely an ISTP, but the Ti is hardcore!
    I do wonder if all of my constant thinking is getting me anywhere sometimes, since it's not like I'm ever prepared for the future. lol I think, instead of these forward-thinking constructs, I am running a sort of programming language in my head at all times, in order to deal with a problem I face.
    You know, using computer language... you logically map out all the possibilities, and then you run an if/then loop -- If x, then y, else z"

    The If/THEN loops are always running for me... but they just aren't far reaching. They don't go into next year, they run through one day at a time.

    Ti is definitely not something that anyone on the outside will see, or even know about you...unless you are really close to someone who forces you to show it.

    In my relationship with the ENTJ, I was regularly forced to show my Ti. He would present a problem or question, demand that I make up my mind, and I would be forced into 24 hour seclusion so I could think like a madman (madwoman?), burn through all of my loops and then "present" my answers or arguments to him. Once I did that a few times he "knew" me very well --can even guess what I'm thinking. And he knows by the look on my face now when my mind is churning about something.

    The best compliment I ever got was from him. He said "You're a very powerful thinker."
    :P

  6. #16
    Member Serge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    Te users "speak out" their thinking - clearly - to the outside world. They think through things while they are conversating. Talking it out, explaining, directing, organizing, etc is how they "think through things". I know some ESTJ's that are capable of thinking on their own, but they aren't nearly as effective alone as when they are around others - and they don't seem to like it much. They want to be directing and talking things out with someone. I even know one that gets really stir crazy if he's alone for a few hours. It's because he has nobody to bounce his ideas and strategies off of. When he's alone, he's unable to use Te the way it's meant to be used - in an extroverted way, with a focus on the outer world. It's strange for me to watch actually. It's almost like the one time in life where he starts to almost look helpless or lost.

    Maybe it's because I have my Te paired with Ni or perhaps it's because I don't have Te at all, but I don't find myself nor the INTJs (Entjs do it, slightly) I know acting in such a manner. I do my best thinking when I'm introduced to a subject I really want to get involved in, and then being left alone with it. Interacting with other people typically causes me to get distracted (And explaining to them what I'm thinking tends to be a bitch) I, myself, tend to organize my thoughts so that my actions are my efficient and such, but I don't tend to take organization to some esoteric level where I must control everything!

    Ti is all of this that we're discussing, but it's mostly directed internally. It helps/aids with outside things, but the thinking itself is most effective when it's done privately and without a lot of distractions. Ever noticed that sometimes when you ask an INTP about something you sometimes get a response that makes you go, "Uhhh, what did he just say?" That happens when we feel rushed - it takes us time and a lot of thought to "translate" what we see so clearly in our minds into actual words that reflect those thoughts to other people.
    From what I've seen and experienced, INTJs, INFJs, INFPs, and INTPs tend to have that slight delay in response, at times. I would have thought that Ti would be better at enunciating an coherent answer because it is so logical, as compared to Ni. I wonder, just a thought, how does Fe/Ti work? And Ti/Se for the few individuals who are actually fully developed and have those functions.
    Te users can do it instantaneously. Ask them a question and you get an answer. Right now. Ask a Ti user a question that is somewhat complex (not just a 'yes/no' question like, 'did you eat lunch yet'?) and if we feel rushed or if the dialogue is moving quickly then you will probably get a "half-baked" answer that doesn't truly reflect our internal thoughts/constructs. But, sit down with us and show real interest or actually ask our advice and you will get an answer that reflects our thoughts much more accurately. Even then, it may be hard for us.
    I think that instant answer might be more of a "Ni" thing than Te. I've had various instances where I gave the, albeit correct, answer but had no way to explain it. Of course it came later, but at the current moment, it was likely that I flipped a coin before hand and said "Let's do this one!" The most I respond to this post, the less I think I'm an INTJ =/


    The absolute best way that you can get our thoughts is to say, "Hey, think about this tonight when you go home and get back to me tomorrow. I need some good input and I'd like your thoughts." Or, "give this some thought and if you think you can find a solution, shoot me an e-mail explaining what you think is the best approach." Then, we can sit privately and think clearly.
    I just thought that that was being a decent person and giving you time to think, doesn't everyone need that? I can give you my first interpretation of a situation, but I most likely won't give you the right one unless I have time to think.

    When I'm by myself, my thought process is like a mighty, free-flowing river. When I'm dialoguing with someone who I don't know well or if the dialogue is rapid, my thought process is more like a lawn sprinkler. You're going to get some glimpses of what I'm thinking, but it tends to be very "choppy" and Ne makes it even more scattered. That's one of the reasons that lots of interaction can wear us out. It requires a lot of energy to "think about what's in our head, then think about if it would be wise to say that to the person we are currently talking to, then make adjustments if we think it needs changes, then try to say it (all the while fighting off Ne's desire to start talking about something else).
    Overall, I liked your post! Sorry, if my response seems a bit terse and infactual
    Johari/Nohari wall! Thanks in advance for filling it out.

    "Taste. I have no taste. I don't like these tiny portions or your artful abortions of sound, sealed with a kiss, slathered in the sauce sarcastic. So go choke on your irony"
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    "Life for you, has been less than kind
    So take a number, stand in line
    We've all been sorry, we've all been hurt
    But how we survive, is what makes us who we are"


  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by missfixit View Post
    You know, using computer language... you logically map out all the possibilities, and then you run an if/then loop -- If x, then y, else z".

    The If/THEN loops are always running for me... but they just aren't far reaching. They don't go into next year, they run through one day at a time.
    OK, I'm curious. If your mapping of things doesn't go further than "today", then how do you deal with the things in life such as:

    If I don't work hard and get my finances in order this year, then next year (or in 5 years), I'll still be having the same problems that I am today.

    Or, if I go to class today then that will help me learn more and get a better grade, which will mean a better grade point average, which will mean more job prospects in 4 years when I graduate."

    I know an ISFP who I was talking to about this very thing. And she basically said, "I just don't do that. I don't even know how to do that. I just can't think about the future like that. It gives me a headache. I just live for today, for this moment."

    It makes me wonder why she ever went to college. I went to college because of the future I thought it would give me (whether it gave me that future is questionable, but I was young and didn't know better). But, why would someone like her even bother going to college? She's not doing it for the future, because she doesn't think about the future. So, is it more like, "college is fun, so I think I'll sign up"? Then I wonder what made her persevere for 4 years and actually graduate (I think it took her more like 7, just like me).

    Do you see what I'm asking? I make decisions based on the fact that I know it will make my life better or more enjoyable tomorrow and in the future. I do things in order to shape a better future. I do see one potential problem for people like me, however. When we actually get to the future, maybe we'll still be "looking to the future" instead of enjoying the now. So, there are good things about both personalities: it's good to enjoy today as much as possible, but it's also wise to make sure you do today what will help you tomorrow.

    But, I do see my ISTP friend (and the ISFP) getting themselves into situations where they forgot about the consequences of tomorrow and then it causes problems for them. Like they plan on working today, but then something fun and interesting comes up and so they say, "I'll do the work tonight." Then as the night comes, they say, "I'm tired from today. Let's just go out to dinner." Then tomorrow comes and people are looking at them like, "why didn't you get that stuff done like you were supposed to?" And they have that look on their face like the big problem that they have now isn't even something that crossed their mind. They didn't even think about the fact that when tomorrow came, it was going to be a huge problem that they didn't get their work done."
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

  8. #18
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serge View Post
    From what I've seen and experienced, INTJs, INFJs, INFPs, and INTPs tend to have that slight delay in response, at times.
    Yeah, I think the INxx's have that in common. It's because our thoughts/feelings/intuition is directed inwardly. For the extroverts, whose energy is naturally directed "outward", the "delay" isn't nearly as long. Have you ever been in a conversation with a bunch of extroverts and the conversation is very rapid and it almost becomes difficult to keep up with, so you just kind of "give up" after a while? That happens to me.

    I would have thought that Ti would be better at enunciating an coherent answer because it is so logical, as compared to Ni.
    Well, Ti (when given patience, or when "calm" and under control) has the ability to speak very well. I've given speeches at a few events and people really enjoyed what I had to say. But, I spent hours preparing a general outline of what I was going to say. And even while I'm speaking, there are times where I pause in order to "let it come to me". I can't just get up there and go, "First A, then B, then C. Thanks for coming, hope you all enjoyed the speech." There's a lot of pondering, processing, and thinking while I am speaking. It can be very intense and draining, but also very enjoyable.


    I just thought that that was being a decent person and giving you time to think, doesn't everyone need that? I can give you my first interpretation of a situation, but I most likely won't give you the right one unless I have time to think.
    The ESTJ's that I know (just as one example, I could include ESTP's and others as well) really do not take much time to think about what they are about to say. Since they are very "what you see is what you get", and because their extroverted energy is automatically focused OUTWARD, there's not much to think about. I've been told by ESTJ's when they ask me a question that I'm thinking too much. "Just give your answer! Don't think!" Well, it doesn't work that way for me. I have to think about it, then I have to consciously "extrovert it" out of my mouth (and that sometimes doesn't come out exactly how I had hoped). If you listen to 2 ESTJ's in a conversation, you're not likely to hear things like, "I don't know, I'll have to ponder that for a while." They just tell you what they think right there on the spot (very rapid fire dialogue) and they feed off each other's energy/dialogue. It's fast and it's to the point. The INxx's are the ones who "need to go sit under an apple tree for a few hours to think about things". Not everyone needs that time or even wants it. I'm not saying that ESTJ's don't ever need to think things over, but hopefully the distinction is clear. Some extroverts just don't need time to "think things through" like introverts do.
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

  9. #19
    Junior Member missfixit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    OK, I'm curious. If your mapping of things doesn't go further than "today", then how do you deal with the things in life such as:

    If I don't work hard and get my finances in order this year, then next year (or in 5 years), I'll still be having the same problems that I am today.

    Or, if I go to class today then that will help me learn more and get a better grade, which will mean a better grade point average, which will mean more job prospects in 4 years when I graduate."
    Yes, this is the really frustrating thing about ISTP. We can't really plan for the future very well.
    For instance, I did go to engineering school. Only because I had nothing better to do and I thought maybe engineer would be a "fun" job. Unfortunately I could not keep my eyes on the future goal, and so I got poor grades and screwed around, and ended up with a GPA that wasn't so awesome. Then i had trouble finding that "cool job" that i originally wanted.

    I kneecap myself like that ALL THE TIME. It is frustrating. I am a problem solver and deep thinker but it doesn't translate into future results, or productivity.

    That's why I often feel useless. Brain is churning, i have lots of ideas or things i want to do, but then i flame out or get bored...and it's over.
    "Man I could totally build that space shuttle, let me get my drill---
    OOOH! cake!!"

  10. #20
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Ti construct - Bar Stool GTX 2000 - for the lazy alcoholic:

    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

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