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[NT] Are all NTs good at math?

Scott N Denver

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Not all NT's are good at math, no, but they're more likely to appreciate it for its' purpose.

Calculus and trig suck though; they are used to draw a curve on a graph. If yeu don't have graph paper, then yeu don't need it. And a computer does the same thing better anyway.

I loved algebra because it had such useful application all the time... calculus I got bored of and didn't do well in since there was no purpose behind it. Yay waste of my time to learn this crap. Yes, it's complex, but no, it has no value on day to day life. Yeu will NEVER need calculus unless yeu're plotting a curve on a graph, because all it's used for is to define a value which changes in a non-linear, yet still predictable way.

If yeu're not a physicist, working with maps, or trying to figure out some really complex stuff, it's not useful, and 95% of the world's population will have absolutely zero use for it.

The only reason they teach it in high school, that I can figure, is to make it so the people who are considering classes related to that in university will realize it sucks and back out early.

I was gonna have a field day with this, but then I saw the bolded part. There is far more to science and engineering than just physics, but know that calculus, and in particular its extension to differential equations [ordinary, partial, including the non-linear versions of both], lies at the FOUNDATION of science and engineering. As expressed in several textbooks on the subject, ALL major laws of science are written as and expressed as [possibly systems of] partial differential equations.

I've met plenty of NT's who are weak at math. As one peer told me "many physicists are scared of math, or at least find it pretty dull and want to pass over it as quickly as possible."
 

Scott N Denver

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Wait, what? Circles have volume? :alttongue:

Ha ha!! Good catch. Area. Volume. Circumference. Radius. Diameter. It's all the same thing. No wonder I'm no longer 99th percentile.

See, this is when you say "Well, what I *really* meant was higher-dimensional generalizations of circles! ;) Now where is my formula for the hyper-volume of a six-dimensional hyper-sphere???"

Why six you may ask??? Well because different theories of superstring theory in theoretical physics have 10, 26, or some other number of dimensions, and we already have accounted for 4 of them [spacetime: x,y,z,t for example], 10-4=6, and six rolls off of the tongue better than does 22. :D
 

visaisahero

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No, no, you're doing it wrong. The right phrase should be "All generalizations are never right" :D

Let "All generalizations are never right" be A.
A is a generalization.
If A is true, then A, being itself a generalization, is "not right".

So not all generalizations are never right. :smoke:

Jokes and circular reasoning aside, generalizations are (generally) useful in capturing non-random trends with a non-random degree of accuracy. The more distinct the trend, the greater the degree the accuracy, and the more useful the generalization.

There are few, if any instances where "All X -> Y" in reality. There are almost always exceptions. Again, I say always, because there may, (someday/somewhere/somehow) be an exception to the rule that there will always be an exception. ^_^
 

INTP

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What are Calculus and Trigonometry for?

no idea about calculus and i think trigonometry has something to do about calculating something about triangles.
 

visaisahero

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I was gonna have a field day with this, but then I saw the bolded part. There is far more to science and engineering than just physics, but know that calculus, and in particular its extension to differential equations [ordinary, partial, including the non-linear versions of both], lies at the FOUNDATION of science and engineering. As expressed in several textbooks on the subject, ALL major laws of science are written as and expressed as [possibly systems of] partial differential equations.

Agreed. I'd like to share my personal perspective as well-

I'm an arts student who enjoys history, philosophy and the like, yet I also have always found mathematics and the sciences really interesting. I did math in junior college and I found it fun and intellectually stimulating. I may never physically have to use calculus or trigonometry in real life, but just having an understanding of it has enriched my experience of this awesome universe.
 

visaisahero

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What are Calculus and Trigonometry for?

Trigonometry studies the relationships between the sides and angles of triangles.

It's very useful when measuring distances, like in geography and astronomy and in satellite systems. It also has a lot of implications on light and sound waves.

Fields that use trigonometry:

astronomy (essential for locating apparent positions of celestial objects)
navigation (on the oceans, in aircraft, and in space)
music theory
acoustics
optics
analysis of financial markets
electronics
probability theory
statistics
biology
medical imaging (CAT scans and ultrasound)
pharmacy
chemistry
number theory (and hence cryptology)
seismology
meteorology
oceanography
many physical sciences
land surveying and geodesy
architecture
phonetics
economics
electrical engineering
mechanical engineering
civil engineering
computer graphics
cartography
crystallography
game development.


Calculus is the study of change, in the same way that geometry is the study of shape and algebra is the study of operations.

It is very important in studying things like acceleration, which is the rate of change of speed. It has widespread applications in science, economics, and engineering and can solve many problems for which algebra alone is insufficient.

Calculus is used in every branch of the physical sciences, actuarial science, computer science, statistics, engineering, economics, business, medicine, demography, and in other fields wherever a problem can be mathematically modeled and an optimal solution is desired. It allows one to go from (non-constant) rates of change to the total change or vice versa, and many times in studying a problem we know one and are trying to find the other.
 

Laurie

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My daughter said this to me last week. :D

Laurel: Sooner or later, everything ties back to math, doesn't it.
 

Asterion

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Not all NT's are good at math, no, but they're more likely to appreciate it for its' purpose.

Calculus and trig suck though; they are used to draw a curve on a graph. If yeu don't have graph paper, then yeu don't need it. And a computer does the same thing better anyway.

I loved algebra because it had such useful application all the time... calculus I got bored of and didn't do well in since there was no purpose behind it. Yay waste of my time to learn this crap. Yes, it's complex, but no, it has no value on day to day life. Yeu will NEVER need calculus unless yeu're plotting a curve on a graph, because all it's used for is to define a value which changes in a non-linear, yet still predictable way.

If yeu're not a physicist, working with maps, or trying to figure out some really complex stuff, it's not useful, and 95% of the world's population will have absolutely zero use for it.

The only reason they teach it in high school, that I can figure, is to make it so the people who are considering classes related to that in university will realize it sucks and back out early.

Calculus is rediculously useful in all areas of science, differential equations are used in chemistry, biology, quantum mechanics, electronics, motion etc. Multivariable Calculus just about defines Electromagnetism and both of these subjects require a decent understanding of Algebra and Calculus. There are pure mathematics majors who are paid a lot of money to solve problems that are too difficult for the typical scientist (who very often have mathematics background just so they can communicate with mathmagicians!), there are also people who have specialized in using computers to work out mathematical problems that are insanely far beyond our human limits.

So, they may teach those mathematics during high school so that you can at least talk to people in your field who are qualified to handle such things. I mean, hey, when you go buy a computer or a car, you don't blindly walk in and rely on the salesperson, do ya? (okay, a lot of people probably do that...).

The only thing I don't like about maths, is that it can involve an extreme amount of repeditive calculations (like some I did today in fact), or you'll be given a whole shitload of incomprehensible theorems and terminology and expected to just work out what to do with them (which happens to me every single monday :steam:)
 

The_Liquid_Laser

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Rid me of the stereotype.

Another question: What are Calculus and Trigonometry for?

Perhaps I should JFGI. *shrugs*

The percentage of NTs who are fairly good at math is larger than the percentage of people who are fairly good at math from the population in general. However there are quite a few NTs who are not particularly good at math.

The two most useful subjects you can study in college are Calculus and Freshman Composition. The first class is the key to unlocking so many fields of knowledge. The second class teaches you to communicate what you know effectively. Any person who has mastered both subjects really has a ton of opportunity ahead of them.
 

Asterion

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The percentage of NTs who are fairly good at math is larger than the percentage of people who are fairly good at math from the population in general. However there are quite a few NTs who are not particularly good at math.

The two most useful subjects you can study in college are Calculus and Freshman Composition. The first class is the key to unlocking so many fields of knowledge. The second class teaches you to communicate what you know effectively. Any person who has mastered both subjects really has a ton of opportunity ahead of them.

Would that be a nice career though? You'd certainly get a great wage, and many job offers, but the jobs might kill you with numbers, if you know what I mean.
 

Katsuni

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Rawr I was giving general examples, but it got taken like that's the 'only' uses o_O

Physics are just very well known for such since it's pretty much impossible to get very far into physics without calculus. There's "alot" of fields that use it, but thing is, generally yeu won't get a job because of knowing it... more likely they'll send the problem to someone else instead. For example, if yeu do 99% of yeur work without calculus but need it for one particular task, yeu're not going to hire someone for it... yeu're going to give it to a university student to do for a few hundred dollars, and save yeurself a full time employee with additional pay for knowing how to do that.

Most people flat out have no use for trig/calc... it's not that they're BAD or anything... I mean for whot they're needed for they work very well, and are essential to performing some tasks, such as figuring out how much fuel is required to break orbit on a rocket for example... as yeu add more fuel, yeu also add more weight, which in turn requires yeu to have more fuel to lift that weight, which in turn adds more weight of the extra fuel... calculus can plot out exactly how much is needed. These kinds of situations DO occur in real life as well, but the vast majority of the time, being accurate within 2-3 overlaps works just as well, because most of the time yeu don't need to be accurate to 0.0001% or people die kinda stuff.

In any case, while they give yeu very precise, accurate answers to complex questions, yeu can usually get away without them and get "close enough".


Whot's 100 +10% repeating? Like 100, 110, 121, 133.1, 146.41, and after that point yeu really don't need any more in most cases. Yeu COULD use high end maths to figure it out exactly to like the 27th incarnation, but how many times do yeu NEED the 27th one?

Anyways I'm just ranting now. Rawr I shouldn't post while tired XD

But yeah, they're useful, but unless yeu're dealing with needing very large or very small numbers that are highly accurate, they're not needed and close estimates work just as well. Most things in life just flat out don't need the precision such maths provide is all. But it's nice that the stuff exists for the things that DO need that precision.
 

CuriousFeeling

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Even though I use a great deal of Te, I'm not the most talented in math. It's never been my strongest subject in school. Despite this, I can wrap my head around geometry and physics based math, as long as there aren't too many unnecessary details in a word problem. I enjoy doing math problems as long as there are formulae that I can use to efficiently solve the problem. I suppose I get more focused on getting the correct answer than the actual process.
 

paradox fox

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I figured trigonometry involved a lot of triangles, because tri-: three & gon-: angle. Wasn't sure though.

Fields that use trigonometry:

music theory

How does music theory use trigonometry, besides the way the sound vibrates and travels? Is it useful for figuring out key signatures, scales and modes, and types of harmonies?

.....can you write songs using equations? :nerd:

My mind has just been blown.
 

BlueGray

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Going up or down 1 octave multiplies or divides the frequency by 2.
If A has a frequency of 1 then the next A is 2 and the previous A is 1/2.
E followed by D are the next most important ones.
D has a frequency of 4/3
E has a frequency of 3/2
Together the pitch adds to 2 since pitch adds multiplicatively.
Two Es create a frequency of 9/4
This is established as B but is in the next octave up. So the B in the current octave is 9/4 * 1/2 or 9/8.
This process is repeated for 12 E notes, which is roughly 7 octaves, creating C, F, and G.
These notes are special as they sound very close to the most harmonious frequencies in respect to A. They are not perfect because 12 Es is not exactly 7 octaves.

This was how the notes were originally developed. I don't know enough about music to know if they changed B,C,F and G to fit better.
 
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paradox fox

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Wait so A2=450hZ, right? So A3 (1 octave up) is 900hZ and A1 is 225hZ?
 

BlueGray

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Wait so A2=450hZ, right? So A3 (1 octave up) is 900hZ and A1 is 225hZ?

Quick google search came up with A4 = 440Hz.
But that is true given A2 = 450Hz.

Also, most classical pieces follow some mathematical model. These mathematical models just sound nice to the human ear.
Computers can be created to be specialized, such as with Deep Blue and chess. The human brain seems specialized for physics and the heavy use of mathematics in physics could be why humans like sounds that follow mathematical models.
 
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I suck at math. I understand the concepts, but if I'm presented with anything to actually solve, I'm hopeless.
 
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