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  1. #41
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    I understood the quote as an anthem for objective thinking. Of course SJs may be according to the definition on the inside be conventional but they have to find, like everyone else, a working interface to submit their own world to the One around them. If this world is more made for SJs and due to that they have an easier way of telling what they feel is another point to argue and I am not really unfair enough to say that.

    If you, for example and for the sake of archetypes, have a tinkerer live in a dessert, a knight having to wear size XXL and a druid living on the moon; the tinkerer will never be able to find enough ressources to craft, the knight doesnt fit in any common armor and the druid cant smoke marijuana.

    In the light of that, I dont think that you can just say SJs are the societies conventional-thinking role models and never are eccentric.

    I tho liked the quote as I said, as an anthem on objective thinking. But maybe I am far of the scale here
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  2. #42
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Not really.

    Conventionality is implicit in the SJ Guardian temperament. You can't separate the two.

    An eccentric person just won't self-identify with SJness.
    I think that SJs are pretty fucking weird... and they all have their eccentric little quirks, that they occasionally think are normal
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  3. #43
    Senior Member Uytuun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    This isn't even about being poltically correct. I don't know maybe it's because INTJs lack Si, but in my experience with SJ older people - a lot of them are more balanced than you would think, in terms of functions, so they're more in touch with their N, etc. (and vice versa)

    It really depends on the person, of course. Maybe it's easier for me as an NF female to relate to older SFJ women or something (which would be the mirror of you as an NT male talking about STJ older men I'm assuming), and like as an NT...maybe because you lack Si...I don't know, maybe you think that older STJ men couldn't possibly relate to you? I don't see why, especially since you both have Te and Fi.

    Ok. I decided to edit this for clarity.

    I rented a room in a house when I lived in Vegas for about a year. The people who owned the house were in their sixties. The wife was undoubtedly an ESFJ - she was the stereotypical mother figure, cooking, cleaning, self-sacrificing, telling me stories about how she used to iron her husband's underwear. But she was surprisingly awesome. I loved this woman. If I sat down and talked to her, she would be straight forward and blunt and say "oh I'm too old to bullshit" and would tell me stories about how she was a virgin until she was 22 and "oh wasn't I so naiive!" and seriously, obviously knew all about life and was very candid and easy to talk to.

    My exes mother is also a text book xSFJ...I mean, from a distance, she met every stereotype: cooking, cleaning, martyr, OCD, not on time to work but always EARLY, loved to play "host" in her home to people, obsessed by details, showed love by gifts, invasive, controlling, et al...yeah we didn't get along the best, I'm not going to talk about that here because it's not the point...but when I did get along with her I was surprised how cool and open minded she could be about certain things, and the same kind old lady "no nonsense" with certain topics of discussion if you really got to know her. The thing was though, you really had to know her to see it.
    I'm female.

    I get along fine with SJs and value them. My intention was to celebrate the uniqueness and strength of the NT-NT connection (which is often rare in real life) and yeah I did it in contrast with SJness (though the definition of the term has proven to be problematic throughout this thread, some differing assumptions, I think, with the question of the relevance of MBTI as a system popping up implicitly here and there) - for various reasons. And I thought the age factor (external factors) and the way in which I noticed it influencing the connections (NT vs SJ) was interesting. The (NT) bashing (oh irony) that followed and the misunderstandings and hurt feelings and whatnot are actually a good illustration of why I cherish connections with other NTs so much (not meant as a passive-aggressive attack).

    *shrug*

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uytuun View Post
    I'm female.

    I get along fine with SJs and value them. My intention was to celebrate the uniqueness and strength of the NT-NT connection (which is often rare in real life) and yeah I did it in contrast with SJness (though the definition of the term has proven to be problematic throughout this thread, some differing assumptions, I think, with the question of the relevance of MBTI as a system popping up implicitly here and there) - for various reasons. And I thought the age factor (external factors) and the way in which I noticed it influencing the connections (NT vs SJ) was interesting. The (NT) bashing (oh irony) that followed and the misunderstandings and hurt feelings and whatnot are actually a good illustration of why I cherish connections with other NTs so much (not meant as a passive-aggressive attack).

    *shrug*
    Sorry that I thought you were male.

    However, I'm not buying it because you didn't also compare this wonderful NT-NT connection with NFs or SPs.

    Also, I never bashed any NTs, FTR.

  5. #45
    Senior Member Uytuun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    Sorry that I thought you were male.

    However, I'm not buying it because you didn't also compare this wonderful NT-NT connection with NFs or SPs.

    Also, I never bashed any NTs, FTR.
    No problemo.

    Lol, I'm on trial at the Fi court? But my own Te-Fi refuses on principle to comply with what it detects and identifies as a dictatorial/obsessive moral imperative to love and value everyone equally (and don't even get me started on Fe)! It is suspicious of dictatorial demands...if it's doing it right sometimes even its own.

    I would never falsely accuse you of such a heinous crime!

    Ok ok, I confess, I value SJs, but in the end I prefer other N(T)s*. How many years in prison for personal preference?

    *and yes I will live dangerously and leave out "but really, it depends on the person"!

    /INTJ court

    Sorry, I had to get that out of my system. also, the thread was about NTs and SJs, the contrast with SJs is simply the largest in my experience and SJs tend to be the norm - now I feel dirty for defending myself

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